Morondongon

Any body in here has tried the banzai razing oil pan brace kit? does it really work? here is the website http://www.banzai-racing.com/...

BrettLinton7

iTrader: (33)

... I dont see why it wouldn't? But no, I've never tried it..

Morondongon

well i was thinking about but i wanted to make sure that someone else in here has it before i buy something that it is not necessary...

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

If you think about it,since the Engine is made in "slices",like Stacked Bread..the engine tends to make the oil pan Flex a bit and makes it prone to Leaking.The Oil pan brace will Reinforce the Oil pan's Bolting points and make it Less Prone to leaking.I Think it is a good part.and Myself I would buy it..and Banzai has a good track record here too.

Morondongon

Point taken... I agree... I'm just wondering now if anyone in here has it and it works for them...

clokker

iTrader: (2)

To achieve the same thing (and also a few extra benefits) there is also this.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Works is a relative term.

Have people bought it? yep.

Does it fit? yep.

Does it do its job? yep....................but what job is that again? There is no distinct difference in operation, driveability, durability or reliability with or without this part. If it helps to reduce flex, great. And I'm sure it actually does to a very minor degree, but is it measurable?

The engine is thick cast iron and aluminum sandwiched together with 10+ large bolts. The piece of 18gauge steel along the bottom can't exactly provide all too much support, but I'm sure it does SOMETHING.

Black91n/a

Personally, I don't see it making the block any stiffer, but it can't hurt with oil pan sealing. That said, I've had mine off twice and have never had it leak, both times an RB oil pan baffle was installed, once with gaskets and sealant, once with just sealant.

The Pineapple pan uses an O-ring to seal, making it superior, but as I'm sure someone will point out, an FD user had the FD pan and managed to crack it open on some road debris, so that can be a concern (maybe the FD pan is more exposed?).

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

No comment on the FD pan, but the pineaple FC pan sits higher then the subframe.....only BARELY 1/4", but does nonetheless. Its a lovely piece, its a shame to have it underneath my car

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

I wonder if an aftermarket oil pan would fix our oil buzzer issue when taking fast consecutive turns like in autocrosses? That sure gets annoying.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

Let's see there are 18 bolts that run through the engine, these bolts do little more than stop the engine from expanding outward and have nothing to do with twist. The only thing stopping the engine from twisting is 4 small dowel pins. These pins are held in place by the dowel pin "landings", these crack and the engine twists.

18 gauge steel would be .0478 or about 3/64" thick, these braces are 3/16" HR steel plate or .1875 (4x thicker )

If you would like to start getting technical, at least have your numbers straight.

This is by no means a "new" invention, we have been using a similar brace on FD's for years with great success.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Sorry if that sounded bad.

But again, what "success" have you had running this in FD's for years....or I should say.....how does a product like this become successful?

Since engine flex really only becomes an issue at high horsepower levels, how can this product help a car thats producing stock or slightly above stock power? If this does what it claims in reducing flex, it could be bolted to a 650whp car after its cracked a rear iron and been rebuilt, and you wouldn't crack it again because its now braced. Yes?

I won't post anymore on this as I'm obviously muckign with your mojo, but this is just one product that I'm a little skeptical of. Skeptical in regards to how much it actually helps, i'm sure it does but i fail to see how much.

Black91n/a

I guess if you're worried about the Pineapple pan you can always bolt a skid plate in under it.

As for the block, no it's not just the dowels that stop it from twisting. All those bolts are tightened down, which presses the irons and housings together. The friction between them works to prevent them from moving relative to one another. The dowels are there for alignment purposes, but will add to the overall stiffness and resistance to slip. It's just like wheels, the raised lip on the hub is only there to align the wheel when you're bolting it on the car, the friction between the wheel and the hub (through the rotor) is what transfers the force to the suspension.

Talk is cheap. I'll believe that the brace adds to engine stiffness when you do some bench tests with and without it. Take some junked housing and irons, bolt them together sans internals with an oil pan. Bolt one end of the engine to a solid stand (maybe using the bellhousing attachment points), then bolt the other end to a long lever arm (attach to the studs on the front iron for AC/PS perhaps), then load up the bar with weights and measure the twist of the engine (not the deflection of the bar, as it and the stand be flexing too). Then add the brace and re-test. If it twists less then the block is stiffer. If you want to prove that it resists slip failure more, then do a side by side test and see if the one without fails at a lower weight than the one with the brace.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

You are correct, it is hard to quantify the success of something that is so hard to measure. In the same vein is the PD elimination, the only way to measure the success is that the car did not spring a fuel leak and burn to the ground.

We have done back to back tests with 2 cars that had fresh rebuilt motors, after break-in both cars were take to the track and after 2-3 agressive track days developed oil pan leaks. Installed the pan braces and have not had a leak in 2 years from either FD.

That constitutes a success.

Black N/A if you would like to set up an elaborate test fixture you are more than welcome to do so. Without getting into a huge discussion on the friction between the plates, I will leave it at that...

I am not trying to force any of our products down anyone's throat, but when false info is posted I will come on to correct it. WE develope products for use on our own personal cars and make them available to the public after testing them.

Black91n/a

I just think that if you want to make extravagent claims that it stiffens the block then you should be prepared to back it up with real numbers and testing, and not just saying things like "well it hasn't blown up yet". But that's just me, others seem to be content to take it at face value with nothing to back it up. Not that I'm saying that you're in the market of making bad parts or anything, I'm just saying, put your money where your mouth is, it's not my job to show that your product works, but if you want to pay for some testing then maybe I can set something up this summer.

George84

Not to get to far off track, but that buzzer drives me crazy when it goes off too, I think this might do the trick http://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/pr...cat=437&page=1. I am thinking about getting one, anyone have one?

Black91n/a

I've got the one from Racing Beat, and I can still get the buzzer to go off at the track when the oil's not topped right off. If you overfill it a little bit then it doesn't do it. It's still a good idea to get it and it'll reduce the amount of oil sloshing about, but it won't totally prevent the buzzer from going off.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

So you are the one guy that is going to try to tell everyone that dowel pinning an engine is not to reduce flex but to increase "allignment". There are much better ways to produce friction between the plates and housing then to make the mating surface perfectly smooth and flat. The only thing stopping the engine from twisting up like a twizzler is the dowel pins.

You are the same "student" that tried to crap on this product before https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/banzai-racing-fc-oil-pan-brace-installation-instructions-692574/ go back to class, come see me when you have designed a part and tested it for the FC.

Pay you for testing, LOL. Engine girdles have been in use on huge solid chunks of cast iron called V8's for decades http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...04516_-1_10175

piston engines are not even a stack of housings and they need bracing to help stop from twisting apart.

This is not to say that the pan brace/girdle eliminates the need to pinning the engine, however that requires a rebuild and all the plates/housing to be machined to very tight tolerances.

The brace is able to be installed on engines that are still in the cars, and it eliminates pan leaks. There is no "extravagent" claims being made, no one said bolt it on and you will be able to run 25psi of boost on your N/A .....

Black91n/a

You said that all of the resistance to twisting is in the pins, all I said was that's not the case, the friction helps too. Sure if they were interlocking or something then it'd be stronger, but there's nothing wrong with smooth surfaces. The mounting surfaces of wheels are smooth and they seem to be able to hold up the car just fine.

https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/how-build-lower-arm-bar-under-%2415-448638/
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/how-diy-brake-master-cylinder-brace-718744/

Ok, so there's two products that I designed and tested for the FC, and I put those designs out there free of charge to help the community. So I don't have a video or test numbers confirming the brake MC brace, but I did notice a dramatic drop in the deflection before and after installing it (observed with someone else pushing on the pedal) and it feels a lot stiffer now too.

I find the claims made that it reduces flex to be somewhat extravagent, and I expect people to be able to back up what they say or else I'm not going to be able to take them very seriously.

Morondongon

Very interesting thread... Lots of useful info... That's the reason why i posted to see if anyone actually had the product and if it had made any difference...

kiyoshi

Oil pan brace is on my purchase list. I want to have some insurance there for long run since I am skeptical on stock design which let oil pan attached by small and big bolts which exist for deferent purpose.

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

OK, one item is a copy of a product that multiple companies already supply and another is questionably usless clutter in your engine bay.

Current list of Banzai products http://www.banzai-racing.com/products_main.htm

Are you asking for video of my cars not leaking oil? LOL

It is funny how many people there are out there that will try to bad mouth a product without any first hand experience, based off speculation. Search "banzai" you will find an engineer wanna-be talking dirt about every one of our products at it's release, I could waste several hours posting up links to our Poly mounts, Apexi PFC adapter, FD differential brace etc etc.. all the way back to the TID realeased in 2000, if I listened to any one of these guys none of these products would have ever been developed or released.

Here is a prime example of another situation similar to this:
http://forum.teamfc3s.org/showthread.php?t=52671

We have since sold hundreds of these kits all over the world.

For that matter there are already dozens and dozens of FC owners driving around with our oil pan brace, we even sell them to other shops that install them on their customer's cars. So try as you may, nothing you say is going to stop us from selling this brace.

If your car does not produce enough power to have engine flex great enough to cause the oil pan to leak, then lucky you (I guess).

zinx

iTrader: (3)

An oil pan brace will stop most little leaks from occurring, but it will not stop a motor from twisting on a hard launch. Still, its better than nothing and it did take care of all those pesky little oil pan leaks.

Case in point, notice it start to smoke from the oil hitting the exhaust. There was a clear line on the pan where the first rotor housing had came down and caused a leak from the motor twisting.
http://www.indyhp.com/media/vids/luci1095.wmv

Note, i'm an FD guy but its 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. I'm using the Garfinkle brace. Great quality and came with grade 8 hardware.

Black91n/a

LISTEN TO WHAT I'M SAYING, NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR. I said already that I'm not trying to accuse you of selling bad products or anything like that. I never said that I didn't think it'd help with oil pan leaks. I never asked for video of that.

All I said was that I don't believe that it'll help stiffen the engine significantly and that I'd like to see claims like that backed up by real world testing. THAT'S ALL. You seem intent to misread what I say and twist it for your own purposes.

Yes maybe the lower arm bar is similiar to others, but it's a cheaper solution that people can do themselves and I've shown that the area it braces does deflect enough to be worthy of bracing. I don't think anyone else has ever done that.

I assure you, the brake master cylinder brace makes a very noticable difference. I got a compliment on my stiff pedal from an autocross tech inspector when I was still using the original brake lines and single piston calipers. The only thing I'd done at that point was install the brace and bleed the brakes. If you don't think it'll help then get someone to press hard on the pedal and look at how much the firewall and booster deflect. The master cylinder moves noticably. After the brace is in place it moves a lot less. Maybe this summer I'll get some hard numbers to prove that it works.

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

Banzai-Racing, do you currently have any Big HP cars testing your brace ? I might be interested, not for leakage but to help keep the plates from cracking.

Let me know.

Thanks.