Dead RX debate input please.
05-08-05, 08:14 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Fort Collins CO USA
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dead RX debate input please.
First of all please note that I have checked the FAQ, Searched Threads and a few other sources, so I have a good idea of the general information.
Breif History: I have a 89 GSL non-turbo manual. It needs the head light motors fixed, has a crease in the drivers door, a slight crack in the windshield, a large scrape on the bottom of the drivers mirror cover, and the rear wiper does not work. All of this was there when I purchased it about a year ago. My plan was to make it into a running restorartion project. I treated it like a baby and got addicted to it.
A couple of weeks back I started her up to go home from work and suddenly she shook like a mother and would viberate with the foot on the gas and die the moment it tried to idle. My stomach sank as my first thought was oh sh$#% the engine just went. Last week I finally got her over to the alleged Non Dealer Mazda shop and got suckered out of $150 bucks for them looking at it and doing a compression test to tell me what I already new in my gut. Yes, after the fact I read up and found out that I could have done a poor man's test to check compression and I was ripped off for being charged for the test. Insult to injury the alleged mechanic informed me that the front rotor had no compression and I would have to buy a new engine $4000 for him to install. I may be dumb, but I am not stupid and I already knew from this group that there are rebuilds and people that do rebuild their own. Once I told him I would just have the RX towed back to my place he offered to take the "junk" off my hands for the cost of my bill. What a nice guy.
So she is sitting on the parking pad and I wont be going to that gentleman for any further work.
Reality is that my best guess is that it will take somewhere between two to three grand to put her back on the road. Where I live I don't have a garage of my own and my landloard has a solid written policy against working on a car at the level required to pull an engine. With luck I may have the money by the end of summer to do something.
The Debate:
Option 1: Sell her as a fixer upper (what would be a fair price?) and when I have the money saved up buy another second generation RX-7 in better shape taking into account what I have learned from my first one.
Option 2: Stick with the plan to restore her and find an honest mechanic to do the work since I don't have a place I can do the work at.
Option 3: Save a bit more than I am projecting, find a place to rent, like a large storage and do the work myself. I do have basic mechanical skills and you guys seem to indicate it is best to do as much as one can. Sorry but I got no one I know that has a garage I can borrow for a six pack or two.
Option 4: Is there an option I am not looking at?
I am looking here for some experianced input from others, so I can come to a balanced decision on my own as to what course I need to follow.
All productive input is welcome and flames will be ignored.
Thanks in advance.
Respect Bob Ruth.
Breif History: I have a 89 GSL non-turbo manual. It needs the head light motors fixed, has a crease in the drivers door, a slight crack in the windshield, a large scrape on the bottom of the drivers mirror cover, and the rear wiper does not work. All of this was there when I purchased it about a year ago. My plan was to make it into a running restorartion project. I treated it like a baby and got addicted to it.
A couple of weeks back I started her up to go home from work and suddenly she shook like a mother and would viberate with the foot on the gas and die the moment it tried to idle. My stomach sank as my first thought was oh sh$#% the engine just went. Last week I finally got her over to the alleged Non Dealer Mazda shop and got suckered out of $150 bucks for them looking at it and doing a compression test to tell me what I already new in my gut. Yes, after the fact I read up and found out that I could have done a poor man's test to check compression and I was ripped off for being charged for the test. Insult to injury the alleged mechanic informed me that the front rotor had no compression and I would have to buy a new engine $4000 for him to install. I may be dumb, but I am not stupid and I already knew from this group that there are rebuilds and people that do rebuild their own. Once I told him I would just have the RX towed back to my place he offered to take the "junk" off my hands for the cost of my bill. What a nice guy.
So she is sitting on the parking pad and I wont be going to that gentleman for any further work.
Reality is that my best guess is that it will take somewhere between two to three grand to put her back on the road. Where I live I don't have a garage of my own and my landloard has a solid written policy against working on a car at the level required to pull an engine. With luck I may have the money by the end of summer to do something.
The Debate:
Option 1: Sell her as a fixer upper (what would be a fair price?) and when I have the money saved up buy another second generation RX-7 in better shape taking into account what I have learned from my first one.
Option 2: Stick with the plan to restore her and find an honest mechanic to do the work since I don't have a place I can do the work at.
Option 3: Save a bit more than I am projecting, find a place to rent, like a large storage and do the work myself. I do have basic mechanical skills and you guys seem to indicate it is best to do as much as one can. Sorry but I got no one I know that has a garage I can borrow for a six pack or two.
Option 4: Is there an option I am not looking at?
I am looking here for some experianced input from others, so I can come to a balanced decision on my own as to what course I need to follow.
All productive input is welcome and flames will be ignored.
Thanks in advance.
Respect Bob Ruth.
05-08-05, 08:26 PM
#2
1.3L is not that small
how does the body look? paint? interior? you listed a few minor flaws that cost pocket change to repair.... but if its a straight body with a great interior or vicer versa then stick with the project... or you could sell it as a rolling chassis (again price depends on condition of the car) but if the body and interior is trashed or not so great then i would sell it for what you could (again this is just my opinion) and try to find a decent running car or another (better) fixer upper... or hell a tII
good luck whatever you do
christopher
good luck whatever you do
christopher
05-08-05, 09:49 PM
#3
Full Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bowling Green, Ohio
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by BRuth
Last week I finally got her over to the alleged Non Dealer Mazda shop and got suckered out of $150 bucks for them looking at it and doing a compression test to tell me what I already new in my gut. Yes, after the fact I read up and found out that I could have done a poor man's test to check compression and I was ripped off for being charged for the test. Insult to injury the alleged mechanic informed me that the front rotor had no compression and I would have to buy a new engine $4000 for him to install.
So she is sitting on the parking pad and I wont be going to that gentleman for any further work.
So she is sitting on the parking pad and I wont be going to that gentleman for any further work.
However, YOU voluntarily took the car to the shop to have them verify what you already "knew in your gut." They are a business, and charged you for their time.
To find out "after the fact" that you could have done the same test on your own in no way constitutes being "ripped-off." The mechanic ran the needed test, got the results, and gave you the bad news...
When my GTU chucked a rear apex seal, the closest Mazda dealer wouldn't even offer to rebuild... The best they could do was order a re-man from Mazda, and the total cost for the new engine and installation was somewhere between $3600-4000 total.
I'm not trying to be a dick, but to me the mechanic was doing his job, and performed the task that you hired him to do when you took the car to him. And to call him an "alleged" mechanic because he charged you for doing his job is just completely asinine... Look it up in a dictionary.
05-09-05, 02:05 AM
#4
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Fort Collins CO USA
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Allow me to clear this up for you.
When I called the mechanic and told him what I thought the problem was, I was quoted what he called his standard evaluation fee and no mention of a compression test.
After he got it into the shop I was told that he always does a compression check first before doing anything else.
When I got the bill it was the evaluation plus the compression test.
Ok, I owe for the compression test, but why the hell should I owe for an evaluation which never occured since his work on the car began and ended with the compression test? If he always runs a compression test first then why was I not quoted the test upfront and told that whether or not he did anything else I would get stuck with the evaluation fee? Could it be that I might have balked at this arrangement, if he was upfront and honest with me? I never got a real explanation from the mechanic as to what he did to deserve the evaluation fee. Had I known and directly asked for the compression test that would have been all I was charged for, per the mechanic.
Do you perhaps see a lack of ethics by the mechanic, because I sure do.
This guy made it clear that no one, I repeat no one rebuilds rotary engines for my car and he would have to get me a new one for $4000 plus his labor. This guy claims he is an expert and has lots of experiance with RX-7's and he does not know that there are people that still do rebuild rotary engines? He also deals out of the garage used Mazdas including a much rougher looking than mine first generation RX-7 that he wants $3500 for. If it is going to cost $4000 for a new engine it is just down right charitable of him to offer to take my RX off my hands for a few peanuts. Do you want to bet had I given it to him either a used or rebuilt engine would have been dropped in for much less than $4000 and it would be on sale right now on his lot?
I never said that I did not owe him because after the fact I found out that I could have preformed a poor man's version of the test. I said that had I done the research upfront then I would not have had called him in the first place. Or at least I would have known to only have him do a compression test only and not be flim flamed into a fee for an evaluation which was never done.
If you still think this guy was just doing his job fine, but I came away feeling like I was dealing with a snake oil salesman with his own agenda. This is not the kind of mechanic that I trust nor will I give him a second chance.
Bob Ruth
When I called the mechanic and told him what I thought the problem was, I was quoted what he called his standard evaluation fee and no mention of a compression test.
After he got it into the shop I was told that he always does a compression check first before doing anything else.
When I got the bill it was the evaluation plus the compression test.
Ok, I owe for the compression test, but why the hell should I owe for an evaluation which never occured since his work on the car began and ended with the compression test? If he always runs a compression test first then why was I not quoted the test upfront and told that whether or not he did anything else I would get stuck with the evaluation fee? Could it be that I might have balked at this arrangement, if he was upfront and honest with me? I never got a real explanation from the mechanic as to what he did to deserve the evaluation fee. Had I known and directly asked for the compression test that would have been all I was charged for, per the mechanic.
Do you perhaps see a lack of ethics by the mechanic, because I sure do.
This guy made it clear that no one, I repeat no one rebuilds rotary engines for my car and he would have to get me a new one for $4000 plus his labor. This guy claims he is an expert and has lots of experiance with RX-7's and he does not know that there are people that still do rebuild rotary engines? He also deals out of the garage used Mazdas including a much rougher looking than mine first generation RX-7 that he wants $3500 for. If it is going to cost $4000 for a new engine it is just down right charitable of him to offer to take my RX off my hands for a few peanuts. Do you want to bet had I given it to him either a used or rebuilt engine would have been dropped in for much less than $4000 and it would be on sale right now on his lot?
I never said that I did not owe him because after the fact I found out that I could have preformed a poor man's version of the test. I said that had I done the research upfront then I would not have had called him in the first place. Or at least I would have known to only have him do a compression test only and not be flim flamed into a fee for an evaluation which was never done.
If you still think this guy was just doing his job fine, but I came away feeling like I was dealing with a snake oil salesman with his own agenda. This is not the kind of mechanic that I trust nor will I give him a second chance.
Bob Ruth
05-09-05, 02:15 AM
#5
Need an E6x
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do the option to sell it as is for cheap.
Trust me on this.
as much fun and as good for expirence it would be for you it would be expensive, time consuming, and really compared to having another rx-7 that's allready and in good shape to maintain it that way, you will be better off in the long run.
trust me on this as well. sounds like you're new to the area of 7's completely, get a good mechanically sound 7 and then learn from there.
Rebuilding an engine to start out a car's life sounds like a really good idea, but odds are you're young and honestly would hop on it more than you should during a break-in period.
I'm young myself and beat the hell out of my that is in the same situation that you could be in shortly in your future. my car sucks aside from being fairly quick to a very nice exhaust that it has on it, but as far as cars go it's only good to be driving it because it's my first owned car.
Sell this one and buy a good one i say again.
Trust me,
Marla
Trust me on this.
as much fun and as good for expirence it would be for you it would be expensive, time consuming, and really compared to having another rx-7 that's allready and in good shape to maintain it that way, you will be better off in the long run.
trust me on this as well. sounds like you're new to the area of 7's completely, get a good mechanically sound 7 and then learn from there.
Rebuilding an engine to start out a car's life sounds like a really good idea, but odds are you're young and honestly would hop on it more than you should during a break-in period.
I'm young myself and beat the hell out of my that is in the same situation that you could be in shortly in your future. my car sucks aside from being fairly quick to a very nice exhaust that it has on it, but as far as cars go it's only good to be driving it because it's my first owned car.
Sell this one and buy a good one i say again.
Trust me,
Marla
05-09-05, 02:20 AM
#6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Fort Collins CO USA
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chris thanks for the reply,
The exterior and interior over all are in very good shape except for the items noted.
The paint is starting to show its age, but nothing too drastic and I figured I would get the red touched up when I had the door fixed.
The only other mechanical problem I note and this came up just before the engine died, I noticed that there was some play starting up in the steering. My wife could not feel it, but I could.
I do keep leaning on keeping her rather than selling her off. I think she still has the makings of a great little car.
I really ticked the wife off when I refused to use the RX for a trade in on the 2005 Cavalier I just got to use for my new job. The Cavalier is more practical for business, but after having the RX it handles like a pig and I just hate not having a clutch and a stick. I still do a lot of air shifting at stop lights in the Cavalier :-)
Thanks again for the input
Bob Ruth
The exterior and interior over all are in very good shape except for the items noted.
The paint is starting to show its age, but nothing too drastic and I figured I would get the red touched up when I had the door fixed.
The only other mechanical problem I note and this came up just before the engine died, I noticed that there was some play starting up in the steering. My wife could not feel it, but I could.
I do keep leaning on keeping her rather than selling her off. I think she still has the makings of a great little car.
I really ticked the wife off when I refused to use the RX for a trade in on the 2005 Cavalier I just got to use for my new job. The Cavalier is more practical for business, but after having the RX it handles like a pig and I just hate not having a clutch and a stick. I still do a lot of air shifting at stop lights in the Cavalier :-)
Thanks again for the input
Bob Ruth
Originally Posted by cwsttu
how does the body look? paint? interior? you listed a few minor flaws that cost pocket change to repair.... but if its a straight body with a great interior or vicer versa then stick with the project... or you could sell it as a rolling chassis (again price depends on condition of the car) but if the body and interior is trashed or not so great then i would sell it for what you could (again this is just my opinion) and try to find a decent running car or another (better) fixer upper... or hell a tII
good luck whatever you do
christopher
good luck whatever you do
christopher
05-09-05, 02:46 AM
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Fort Collins CO USA
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Marla,
Bless you. I am young at heart, but I came off the assembly line back in 1960.
I am going through my second childhood, but my wife swears I never cleared the first one. The RX is the first fun set of wheels I have had since my military days, when Ronny Regan was president. I really wanted an RX back in 89 when mine was buillt but having a family & small budget lead to more practical set of wheels for the next 16 years. The kids are now out of the house and so I decided that it was time to get into a car that was just for me.
Thanks for the input. While my heart is in rebuilding the old girl, my practicle side says I can get another one for the cost of getting her up and running. However, unless someone can tell me a sure way to know how much life will be left in the next cars engine, I could be right back in the same postion. I now know that I need to have a compression check before buying another one, but to what degree will it be reliable in selecting a car with an engine that won't kill over quickly? So I keep turning over the pros and cons.
Thanks once again.
Bob Ruth
Bless you. I am young at heart, but I came off the assembly line back in 1960.
I am going through my second childhood, but my wife swears I never cleared the first one. The RX is the first fun set of wheels I have had since my military days, when Ronny Regan was president. I really wanted an RX back in 89 when mine was buillt but having a family & small budget lead to more practical set of wheels for the next 16 years. The kids are now out of the house and so I decided that it was time to get into a car that was just for me.
Thanks for the input. While my heart is in rebuilding the old girl, my practicle side says I can get another one for the cost of getting her up and running. However, unless someone can tell me a sure way to know how much life will be left in the next cars engine, I could be right back in the same postion. I now know that I need to have a compression check before buying another one, but to what degree will it be reliable in selecting a car with an engine that won't kill over quickly? So I keep turning over the pros and cons.
Thanks once again.
Bob Ruth
Originally Posted by marlaman
Do the option to sell it as is for cheap.
Trust me on this.
as much fun and as good for expirence it would be for you it would be expensive, time consuming, and really compared to having another rx-7 that's allready and in good shape to maintain it that way, you will be better off in the long run.
trust me on this as well. sounds like you're new to the area of 7's completely, get a good mechanically sound 7 and then learn from there.
Rebuilding an engine to start out a car's life sounds like a really good idea, but odds are you're young and honestly would hop on it more than you should during a break-in period.
I'm young myself and beat the hell out of my that is in the same situation that you could be in shortly in your future. my car sucks aside from being fairly quick to a very nice exhaust that it has on it, but as far as cars go it's only good to be driving it because it's my first owned car.
Sell this one and buy a good one i say again.
Trust me,
Marla
Trust me on this.
as much fun and as good for expirence it would be for you it would be expensive, time consuming, and really compared to having another rx-7 that's allready and in good shape to maintain it that way, you will be better off in the long run.
trust me on this as well. sounds like you're new to the area of 7's completely, get a good mechanically sound 7 and then learn from there.
Rebuilding an engine to start out a car's life sounds like a really good idea, but odds are you're young and honestly would hop on it more than you should during a break-in period.
I'm young myself and beat the hell out of my that is in the same situation that you could be in shortly in your future. my car sucks aside from being fairly quick to a very nice exhaust that it has on it, but as far as cars go it's only good to be driving it because it's my first owned car.
Sell this one and buy a good one i say again.
Trust me,
Marla
Trending Topics
05-09-05, 11:22 AM
#8
Full Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Bowling Green, Ohio
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanx for clarifying... I would definitely run away from this shop as fast as possible!!! Sounds to me like he gets alot of people with rx7's who don't know anything about them, or where to look for info. Therefore, he can probably get away with crap like this most of the time.
As far as what to do with the car, it's kind of a tough one... Yeah, getting rid of it and buying another one can be a crap-shoot... Two months later, you may end up in the same boat... Or not.
If you keep the car, by the time you address not only the engine, but also all the other little niggly things, the expense can be fairly high. You may end up spending a few thousand dollars on something that when completed may be worth a couple thousand less than you've invested.
Unfortunately, that's the plan I had with my GTU... But due to alot of other stuff happaning in the meantime, it's still sitting three years later.
Good luck whichever route you take, and I apologize for misunderstanding your original post.
As far as what to do with the car, it's kind of a tough one... Yeah, getting rid of it and buying another one can be a crap-shoot... Two months later, you may end up in the same boat... Or not.
If you keep the car, by the time you address not only the engine, but also all the other little niggly things, the expense can be fairly high. You may end up spending a few thousand dollars on something that when completed may be worth a couple thousand less than you've invested.
Unfortunately, that's the plan I had with my GTU... But due to alot of other stuff happaning in the meantime, it's still sitting three years later.
Good luck whichever route you take, and I apologize for misunderstanding your original post.
05-09-05, 12:29 PM
#9
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Maple Valley, WA
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Try posting this question in your Regional section. Maybe there's a close-by rotor head that has a garage and wants the experience of a rebuild (or just wants to help out a fellow 7 owner). You said in your heart you wanted to rebuild her, so concentrate on ways to make it happen. It may be difficult and frustrating in the near term but you'll be happier in the long term.
05-09-05, 01:01 PM
#11
Carter 2.0
You have a daily driver with the Cavalier. This means you have the 7 for grins. REBUILDING the engine yourself can be lots of grins. and when it starts right up after you rebuild you'll really be grinning.
I understand about not having a place to work........if you get a Self storage garage yo could pull the engine there. You may have to pay rent on the storage place for three months while you go through the process. You can take the short block back to your house and do the actual rebuild in your living room or your picnic table on the back porch if you like. It doesn't require a lot of space.
Buying everything you need (if you have a basic mechanics tool set) you may spend close to $2000 for tools, shop rags, Motor stands, a hand wench for pulling, lubricants and the actual parts needed for the motor ($877 from Mazdatrix, cheaper from Rotary Avaition).
You need the FSM located on this website and the Rotary Aviation rebuild video.
This is what I used to rebuild my '89 this winter.......And I had never seen a rotary B4 last July when I bought my vert.
Rebuild the motor.....relieve that 40+ year old stress in your life. Have your kids help out, Get your wife involved. My wife was mad the other day when I had my 9 year old pump the brakes after changing the Master Cylinder. She complained that she had lost her job to our Son. She was referring to all the past times I performed this type of job B4 we had kids!!.
These cars are complex yet very simple at the same time. This board is filled with answers to make the complex items into easy DIY items.
AND yes $150 bux for an evalutaion is really high in anybodies terms. The evalutation period is the mechanics opportunity to SELL you on his abilities to fix your problem. HE SHOULD NOT CHARGE for the opportunity to earn your business. (that was a period at the end of that sentance). That's like having to pay the clerk at payless shoe store to help you try on shoes........doesn't really sit right when it is said in those terms does it??
I understand about not having a place to work........if you get a Self storage garage yo could pull the engine there. You may have to pay rent on the storage place for three months while you go through the process. You can take the short block back to your house and do the actual rebuild in your living room or your picnic table on the back porch if you like. It doesn't require a lot of space.
Buying everything you need (if you have a basic mechanics tool set) you may spend close to $2000 for tools, shop rags, Motor stands, a hand wench for pulling, lubricants and the actual parts needed for the motor ($877 from Mazdatrix, cheaper from Rotary Avaition).
You need the FSM located on this website and the Rotary Aviation rebuild video.
This is what I used to rebuild my '89 this winter.......And I had never seen a rotary B4 last July when I bought my vert.
Rebuild the motor.....relieve that 40+ year old stress in your life. Have your kids help out, Get your wife involved. My wife was mad the other day when I had my 9 year old pump the brakes after changing the Master Cylinder. She complained that she had lost her job to our Son. She was referring to all the past times I performed this type of job B4 we had kids!!.
These cars are complex yet very simple at the same time. This board is filled with answers to make the complex items into easy DIY items.
AND yes $150 bux for an evalutaion is really high in anybodies terms. The evalutation period is the mechanics opportunity to SELL you on his abilities to fix your problem. HE SHOULD NOT CHARGE for the opportunity to earn your business. (that was a period at the end of that sentance). That's like having to pay the clerk at payless shoe store to help you try on shoes........doesn't really sit right when it is said in those terms does it??
05-09-05, 01:05 PM
#12
Carter 2.0
Originally Posted by nothingbutrotor
so what is the poor mans version of the test? now im curious, I dont want to have to pay money for a compression test if i can check it myself.
Have fun.
05-09-05, 03:43 PM
#13
Stoned Ping-Pong Club 05'
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: I forget
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bruth, correct me if im wrong but from the start you should have been a little more forgiving. your gut feeling reaction, and your dishonost mechanic'c opinion do not clerify a blown engine. Did you do the "poor mans" compression test? it does not entail a shop or any fancy tools and i suggest you try it yourself. look at the mazda factory manual under the problem diagnosis section and start singleing out potential problems. also post the exact symptoms of your car and what youve tried to it to get it running fair so that others may help you correctly diognos your problem. what im saying is, is that everyone just assumes that when there is a problem with a rotary engine it has blown. also, unliss there is absolutaly no compression in the front rotor, your car should still be able to run, thats also dependant upon the rear rotors compression but im sure if you just dig deeper youll uncover more information which will lead you to the answer your looking for. either selling her, rebuilding her or what not. whatever you do, just dont ever give up on the rotary.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
eplusz
General Rotary Tech Support
15
10-07-15 04:04 PM
