hondahater

iTrader: (2)

ok for those that don't know whats going on with my car. It was working perfect with my stage I hybrid turbo and then I descided to upgrade (number 1 mistake) Anyways so I go out and buy a stage III bnr hybrid and also some 890cc injectors. Well I descided to move my 720cc secondaries to the primary spot and put the 890cc injectors in the secondary location. Well needless to say the 720cc primaries where causing all sorts of hot start problems, to rich problems etc... well I descided to go back with 550cc injectors in the primary location and tonight I put them in and gave it a test drive. Well I set the safc to 0 correction at first and man did the car run so well from 800 to 3400rpm however as soon as the secondaries cut on it would just buck horribly! the wide band would go from 12's to 21 over and over again until I let off the gas. Well then I descided to make some corrections on the safc from 3500 rpm on up and I started at -10% on up to -30% and the same thing happend. The bucking was a little differant when making corrections but still horrible. Now here is the strage part, the 890cc injectors are high impedance??? I didn't know they made them high impedance? They are the normal grey and black 890cc injectors you see everywhere but these are high impedance. I guess I'll have to yank my manifold off and try to see if they are good injectors or not, the weird thing is they are nearly new injectors. Does anyone else have any suggestions on what this problem could be??? shouldn't I not even have to make corrections on the safc accept to fine tune with these injectors? I bet these injectors are bad or something why esle would it go from 12 to 21 back and forth when the secondaries kick in??? I don't know I'm lost.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Your corrections should be around 21% over 3500 (since the rtek is set for 720's, and you've got 890's in place). You can get injectors in whatever impedance you want, high or low. It pretty much sounds like they're not firing at all or very poorly. I would first pull it back apart, check the impedance (just ohms accross the two injector pins, low is 2-3, high is 12-13). For an 88 you'd want high (unless you have an early harness in with the resistor pack, then lows is good). Now, if those turn out fine, I'd check your plugs and wiring (is it good/burnt out resistors/etc?), if that all checks out ok, i'd test the new injectors to see if they even fire at all. Chances are you've got resistors on high imp injectors making it overall around 23-24ohm.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

lol funny you mentioned that sonic because I ASSuMEd they where low impedance injectors at first and threw some resistors on the ecu side of the wires and man was it bad! SO I then pulled the manifold off and check the injectors and found that they where high impedance injectors after all. I pulled the resistors off and it made it a ton better, lol if heavy bucking and hessitation and backfiring is better You can emagine what the other way was like anyways hooking it up like that wouldn't burn the ecu up would it? I'm going to yank the manifold of for the 1000th time tomorrow and will check to see if they are firing. HOw do I do this again?

ilike2eatricers

To check to see if the injectors fire? Well to see if they fire you can place a 12v on one of the injector prongs and ground the other prong. Do this only for a split second and listen for the click. What rpms do you have your SAFC corrections set at? If you havent already only start the correction at about 3400rpm or 3600rpm and up focusing several of the correction points around 3800 so you can smooth over the crossover. I think that would help a bit.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i wouldn't trust that method because it isn't actually testing the pulse from the ECU, pull the UIM and the fuel rails, test each set of injectors in the primary positions in the fuel rail, strap them to the rail with some zip ties and you can either pull the CAS and turn the ignition on then spin the CAS and the injectors will pulse or you can leave the CAS in and crank the engine. be sure you pull the plugs off of the leading and trailing coils though to prevent a catastrophe.

sounds like one of the secondary injectors is not pulsing.

Coetz

I sort of have the same problem, i didnt replace my injectors, but when my secondary inj kick in they run alright unless i give them a bit more fuel, then they start backfiring and jurking and sometimes it feels like my rotors stop altogether untill i take my foot off the fuel. If i give it a little fuel it will rev fine. My car is an 87 NA and i know very little about rotarys. Any suggestions to what the problem could be specifically?

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

He has an Rtek, his injectors come online AT 3500

rx_rotary

hondahater- had a question for ya..does your unflood feature work since you got the rtek chip?

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

you know it did once but then after that I'm not sure if it does. When I got hotstart problems I would have to pull the egi fuse Holding my foot all the way down would not help.

Thanks for responding guys. I'm going to have to say something is wrong with them because I made the safc points

1500
2500
3500
4500
5500
6500
7500

At 3500 rpm I tuned my safc, like I said before, from -10% all the way to -30% (I know 30 is a bit over board) and nothing changed still a horrible bucking/backfiring and the wideband read out on the laptop looked like skinny christmas trees going from 12 to 21 and back again. I may just send these injectors off to a place like cruzinperformance.com or something to see what they think of the injectors however that takes so damn long I'll probably just do what you said karak to see if they work. On the other hand all this backfiring makes it kind of funny, because I live in the ghetto some what and I was driving down the road tinkering with the safc and of course right on cue the secondaries come on and I start backfiring and hessitating right next to a black guy in his front yard. I don't believe I've eve seen someone run that fast, lol.

rx_rotary

hmm..mine doesnt work either.I was wondering if it was because of the rewired fuel pump?! by the way.my car did the same thing as you with the bucking.and i realized it was running wayy too rich.now i have my 1st gen AFC leaned out all the way and its better now but i still get some hesitation and im running soo rich its off my AEM guage(doesnt read anything over 11.0). I was thinking my injectors are stuck open. My next days off im gonna try and stick the stock chips back in and see how it runs.if its still running hella rich its my injectors.if not it might be the chip.by the way i have 1st gen rx7 680cc primary's with 720cc secs.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

I don't know man, If it was just rich then it would be getting like in the 18 or 19's but constant. With my wide band its going up and down like something is wrong. Maybe I"m wrong but My car worked way to good before these injectors went in. I think I'm just going to take them out and send them to cruzin' or witchhunter or whatever. Anyways if anyone else has any idea of what may be happening please feel free to jump on in. Wayne? Nzconvertable? karak? sonic? ilike2eatricers?

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

ok I just put the digital multimeter on the primary and secondary injectors at the ecu and when I put the multimeter on OHM and 200 it comes up with primaries 25.4 and secondaries 24.5. I thought high impedance was like 13 or so? what is this 25 comming from?

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

They should be around the 12-13 range at the ECU. Also, chances are your secondary simply just aren't firing which is why you have the hesitation/etc. Anyway, check @ your injectors directly and see what you get.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

when I checked at the injectors I was getting 13 on the secondaries. how could at the ecu they be seeing 25? I have no resistors.

HAILERS

Explain what two wires you are touching with the meter when you are ohming out the injectors.

This post seems upside down. Since when is a afr in the upper teens RICH?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????/

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

no when I ohm them out at the injectors they where 13's but when I test them at the ecu they are at 25. wait a minute I can't ohm them out at the ecu can I? I mean there is only one wire per injector at the ecu, hum.... well what I was doing isn't correct. lol, sorry. I'm just going to send these injectors off to cruzinperformance to have them check them out.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

You've got something screwed up that's not letting those secondaries come online properly, and that's screwing everything up!

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

are your injector connectors/terminals new? if they are old the terminals could be pushing out of the connectors causing a light connection or no connection at all causing the problem or the terminals could be corroded causing high resistance and causing the problem. i would pull the UIM and do some inspecting of the connections at the secondaries and do some ohm reading with the manifold off so you can see what is going on, you can also do the test to see if they are firing.

no point in sending out newly cleaned injectors again without first doing some other tests.


also, did you solder the connections for the SAFC? i have had some connection issues when i first installed mine, no problems after i soldered them solid.

WAYNE88N/A

Honda Dude, you CAN ohm them out at the ECU- here's a little trick we airplane guys use when we need to shoot a wire down the entire fuselage:

As far up the circuit as you can (I'm thinking either the fuse contacts with the fuse out or the main relay connector disconnected), run a jumper to ground from the wire for the circuit (in both of these scenarios, you're going to be grounding all 4 injector feeds, basically, because you're doing it before the wire splits into 4). Next read the injector pin at the ECU with one lead and to ground with the other- you're using the car's chassis for an "extra long" meter lead, basically.

You'll read the entire injector circuit this way, from the fuse to the ECU. Pretty neat, eh?

You can disconnect the pos terminal at the battery if you wish, but it shouldn't matter as long as you isolate the power feed from the point at which you're using the jumper...

Don't jumper to ground the power side socket for the fuse you pulled, of course, but the load side

While you're there at the ECU, you might as well read all 4 of 'em to ground, so you can verify all 4 injector runs are good...

If I'm confusing the $hit out of you, PM me

HAILERS

There's another way from the above: There is a seventeen pin connector that is located in the passengers side foot well. It's located up and towards the front right side of the foot well. If you pull that plug apart you'll find a black/yellow wire in one of the sockets.

Ohm from that black/yellow wire to each wire at the ECU i.e. 3C, 3E, 3F, 3H

Oh, that connector has a male/female side. I forget which half you'd get on the black/yellow wire. It'll only work on one half of the plug so it won't take long to figure out which it is.

Sounds tiresome but its easier than pulling a intake off.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

lol, yeah this will be my millionth time to pull this intake off so I could probably do it with one eye closed Anyways thanks wayne I will try your way to see what will happen also you did confuse the **** out of me, thats for sure but it's still early so I'm going to reread it after an hour or so, lmao. Karak, the connectors are brand new from rx7.com because the old ones where nasty like you where talking about and while I was there I said screw it and replaced all four connectors. I just want to give the guy I bought these 890's from the benefit of the doubt and want to test everything before I blame the injectors. the reason I want to test everything at the ecu is partially because I don't want to take the manifold off but I will it's really no big deal but the main reason is because I want to see what the ecu is seeing. I could just take the mani off and check the ohms at the injectors but that wouldn't tell me anything about the line running back to the ecu. Thanks again for the input guys.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

well I just checked the impedance at the ecu and each one reads about 13 so all is well there. So now the next logical thing to do would take the mani off put the secondary injectors in the primary location turn the ignition on and see if those injectors spray?

I was still way to tired to comprehend your post wayne, lol, I'm rather slow when it comes to wiring and even slower when I first wake up, hehe. Anyways I figured I'd try to find the connector hailers was refering to and found it and sure enough it worked like a charm, thanks hailers. Oh yeah but it was a 13pin connector, I guess it changes from year to year?

Thanks again for all yall's help! I feel like I'm getting somewhere now!!!!

HAILERS

I was working off memory. Sorry 'bout that.

And just FYI...prior to ohming out the wires, you might touch the positive and negative leads of the meter together and read the resistance. Then subtract that figure from what you read when reading the injectors.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

ok sounds good, Well off to take the manifold off and check the 890's I'll report back as soon as I find out whats happening with them. So when I put the 890's in the primary location and fasten them with zip ties when I turn the ignition on it will spray gas?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

do that then disconnect the coil connectors so they will not fire, do not pull the EGI fuse or you will lose your injection also. you can put each injector into a plastic cup or plastic soda bottle and crank the engine, each injector should spray alternately with equal patterns.