soryr but i get a little pissed when people say ridiculous things, when i am actually trying to get a little advice, less than a 1/4 of the people that have posted on this thread have ever even held an apex seals. i odnt go around wasting server space with useless comments about peoples cars, yet many people here find it neccessary to voice their imaturity.

Roy James,

why dont you go smoke some more pot and throw a little JB weld at your car, it seems to be the only 2 things you are good at.

Love,
Justin

 

try it out first before running your mouth.

 

Side seal springs *should* go in with the Ends pointing UP! but i have heard of engines running & working okay when put in the wrong way. I don't at all think thats the problem with this motor.

 

The issue is when you put the spring upside down, the ends tend to sink in and not extend out as far as they should (I noticed I had two in backwards) Thus, chances of losing compression, sometimes it works just fine, sometimes the ends will just hang down lower than the rest of the seal, and that's why the ends should point up so that the end of the seal has the spring further towards the end, at least, this is what I observed when I had it in the wrong way, I flipped it over and the issue was solved. Not everyone may experience this, but I did, so to each his own.

 

Hylomar IS a non hardening gasket sealer. Its not some magic stuff. Im still going to go buy what the FSM and Haynes manuals say about the gasket sealer. It doesnt go on the water or oil rings according to the FSM and Haynes.

On the side seals prings. I didnt see haynes mention anything about it, and the FSM simply states that the paint side of the spring and seal goes down. But where are the paint marks on used seals?

 

mazdaspeed: good point, but that's what I experienced when I had the ends pointing down, some people don't have that issue, and I think that's why they intend to have them pointing upwards. But, good point on used seals, I guess mazda didn't think about paint wearing off?

 

Trust me .. put the ends up, thats the correct way. I confirmed this last nite ... in the FSM by color & in the Atkins rotary video. It got me thinking so I double checked. So if the paint marks are missinf just to it ends up.

 

rpeck: you still haven't explained why they should be that way (as I did) so I can sort of understand why they're a little annoyed at you insisting over and over to do it this way without any reasoning behind it, but now there is so it makes sense

 

Justin, you dont ******* know me, so watch your god damned mouth. You have no clue as to what im good at or not good at so shut the **** up and go cry about your VDI. Jesus Christ. I was pretty sure that JB weld would **** my **** up, but, i didnt know for *sure* so.. i did it. I was right, it fucked it up, big deal. Sorry im off topic but this kid pisses me off all the damn time.

 

Well making fun of him for screwing up, probably isn't the smartest thing to do since you are not perfect either.


I think both of you need to calm down.

 

When did i make fun of him? He doesnt like me bc a long *** time ago he said he wanted a VDI manifold i had and i told him i would sell it to him. Month or two later never heard anything, no money sent, and i sold it with a car i sold and he hates me for it. Hell if i know, i dont really have anything against him other than his lil remarks twards me all the ******* time. Hell i even tried to help by looking myself in the Haynes about the side seals.

 

too much anger and hate going around. way too much.

 

Hell, I don't know why ... I just know its the right way Like I said I think thats the least of the problems. I would not reopen the block on behalf of just that.

If the book says put the Red battery terminal on the + side and the Black on the - side .. you don't question why?? You just do it the way they say to do it and assume they said it for a reason.

 

The FSM shows the springs direction for the very reason that the paint wears off.

the sprins AND seals have a particular direction that they face.

I just dont subscribe to the attitude that "some things dont matter" just because I dont understand WHY they matter.

Its reasoning like this that glues engines together.

Just because I dont understand, doesnt mean that it makes no sense.

I still havent heard about the answers to the questions.
Nor do I know if you intend to open the engine back up.

What will you do?

 

NO FLAMES. Warning #1.

Brad

 

NO FLAMES Warning #1.

Brad

 

don't bother to take the engine apart, just do what i did and spray a ton of PB Blaster through every engine orifice and wait a few minutes.

 

that was more of a self defense statement, but, whatever, no use in fighting with the "law".

 

LOL, such vocabulary



ok heres the deal, we are going to go back through and oil, everything the way it should, put the springs in whatever direction i feel like, use hylomar on the water jacket seals because it cant hurt, and use slightly less superglue......

this is the worst thread i have ever seen, short of a YZF religious debate

Justin

 

For whatever its worth, I've used Hylomar on some engines and just vaseline on others. The Hylomar works better for me if I put it on the inner and outer water seals rather than vaseline. Vaseline WILL make the water seals stretch and swell a bit til they don't fit. That only if I'm piddling slow. If I hurry, no problem. I use gobs of vaseline on the rotor parts. That way when I turn the rotor over to put it on the housing the part don't fall out due to gravity.
I realize how hard it is to make the decision to take the engine apart after getting this far, but I've had to do the same. While tightening the tension bolts I spied a black worm sticking out b/t a rotor housing and side housing. Really runined my day and attitude.

I've also diddled while building and using vaseline on the water seals. Sun shone itself on the orings while I watche F-1 race. Came back and the black o'ring had decided to grow and climb out of the groove. Got so much longer it wouldn't all go back in the groove. Shut me down. Was Sunday and no dealers open to buy a new one.

Good decision to take it apart.

 

Anyone care to explain what Hylomar is to me? Im about to tackle my first engine rebuild and im picking up some good pointers on what to do and what not to do from this thread, reguardless of all the fussing and fighting. Thank you. I love you Justin

 

If you use another drop of glue in this engine i swear im gonna scream.

there is NO REASON TO USE SG TO HOLD THE SEALS IN!

thats IDIOTIC!

Follow the directions and use a rubber band!

cyanoacrylate is NOT to be used except to hold the corner portion of the apex seal to the main part.

Why would you WILLFULLY INGNORE doing it the right way on the SECOND TRY?!!!!!!!!


Also..
about Hylomar....

Hylomar is used to lubricate and seal the seals as they compress.

It thickens with time and will not pass through the tight sealed edges after thickening for a few hours.

Prior to that, it ensures a proper seat and spread of all the rubber seals.

Its $5.

Buy the Atkins video on rotary rebuilds.
Its INVALUABLE visual training!

 

Go ahead and scream, because I will use superglue again, and on any rebuild I do in the future. Why? Because it saves time and frustration. Most of the builders in the country use superglue on at least the apex seals, for the same reason I do.

Mazda built how many thousands of rotaries WITHOUT using hylomar to seal the water gaskets?

BTW, every builder has their own practices, so Im not saying anything you do is wrong, or anyone else in here . But just because you do it, doesnt mean its the only correct way to do it. Stop telling me your way is the only way to do it.

 

cool advice, i think i need to get that vid ASAP to learn real fast and avoid all my confusing questions. Thanks

 

the superglue is NOT used to hold the seals "in".

It's used to hold the apex seal corner piece to the rest of the apex seal. That way when you stuff them in place the corner piece stays put instead of popping out.

That's the way every manual I've ever seen says to do it.