In the recent past I had a 13B engine rebuilt for me. It did run strong. I have no complaints there. However, I did have a bad oil leak at the oil pan gasket seal. This was not a small drip. It left a puddle under the car. This leak was found immediately after the first road test. I desperately wanted to keep the engine. I tried 5 to 6 attempts to seal the oil pan. I used new gaskets every time, except for the times I purposely tried to use gasket sealer only. One mechanic told me to use the gasket sealer “The Right Stuff” by NAPA. He said it would seal anything even without a gasket. It did not. I dried using another oil pan. Nothing would seal the oil pan. After each attempt, the leak would reappear at the same place, starting just behind the motor mount, around the corner, to the middle of the back edge. Every where else sealed every time. Obviously I did not want to take the engine out and return it. But I saw no alternative. How can anyone except, and be happy with, a newly rebuilt engine, with 0 miles on it, that leaves a puddle of oil every where it is parked? I took the engine out and returned it. I am not out any money, but I have spent numerous hours over this problem, and I have no engine.

So now I am in need of another rebuilt engine. I have 3 core engines to use. All I need is a person to rebuilt one. I have found a guy recommended from someone at this web site that is very close to where I live. He is Kevin Landers, hypntyz@charter.net, he is in Morristown TN, just north of Knoxville. I checked out his web site, and it all looks great and professional. I have written him an e-mail about my need for an engine, concerns over the oil pan seal problem and what I had previously gone through. This was his response, which brings me to my problem.


Oil pan seal is not totally uncommon. Many owners of rebuilt engines or old original engines have problems getting oilpans to seal. Both of my personal 7's leak oil from the pan gasket in spite of my best efforts. Some of the *high end* rebuilders offer services in which they painstakingly use a centerpunch to make indentions in the block surface and oilpan sealing surface to help the oilpan gasket seal, but i am told even this does not always work. Sometimes this is just part of having an older car.

I told him I returned the engine.

--over an OIL LEAK??? and they actually allowed you to DO that? I do not however guarantee against an oilpan leak, and certainly would not take back a perfectly good engine on account of that. I think you'll find this is standard anywhere...it is really a trivial thing. IF the engine starts, runs, and makes good power, the builder has done his job welll and this is all that should be expected.

He states that an oil pan leak from a newly rebuilt engine with no miles on it “is really a trivial thing.” Am I wrong, after spending a lot of money, to expect that a rebuilt engine should not have an oil leak form the oil pan seal? Has anyone dealt with Kevin? Should I have Kevin rebuild my 13B without a guarantee of an oil pan leak? Is a leak at the oil pan common for a rotary engine? If I do have him rebuild it and do have a leak, do you know any suggestion or tricks to fix the problem? Any comment or suggestions on my problem is appreciated.
P.S. I hope this has not been too long to read but I had a lot to say.

 

Could someone please post any comment on my problem? I really need some help on this. I need to make a decision whether or not to let Kevin rebuild my engine. Or seek someone else.

 

I have delt with Kevin, and have recommended him to others. I don't have any negative things to say about him, his work, nor have I heard anything negative from others.

You might want to think about changing the oil pan. Sometimes if the bolts get over-tightened it will warp the pan flange and create an uneven sealing surface. I've seen this on cars before. Oil pans, valve covers on piston engines, etc. It easier and cheaper than changing the motor. I have a few extra pans that didn't leak. If you want to give one a shot, I can ship you one for $30.

 

Kevin has done 2 rebuilds for me. The engine had small oil pan leaks to start with, had it also when he finished. I know he worked hard to fix the leak (I was whining a good bit about it) but nothing worked. Looks like most people DO seem to have this type of leak with our engines..I just change out the cardboard underneath the car once a month. I do still pester him about it every chance I get for fun.
Kevin is a superb rebuilder, my advise for you is to have him do it, or pay many more bucks and get a mazda engine (maybe they have the no-leak guarantee?).
Good Luck!

 

Kevin Landers is right.
Getting an oil pan to seal perfectly is next to impossible on these engines.  It doesn't help that the passenger engine mount is fastened right in the center of the oil pan, and this puts twisting motions on the oil pan itself; I think if the oil pan wasn't loaded like this, we wouldn't have these problems.

You do have a legitimate concern, but to argue having the engine replaced due to an oil leak from the oil pan is kinda excessive.

HEY KEV, I THINK YOU NEED TO BEEF UP YOUR DISCLAIMER FROM NOW ON!


-Ted

 

Kevin is superb, the guys is very very reasonable. I had my engine rebuilt by him, never had a oil leak, don't have one now, I guess I am lucky. I'd go with him.

 

Well, this is quite interesting.

Thanks for the letters of recommendation, guys.

To the original poster, let me clarify what I was trying to convey to you. As we have discussed prior to this as well as here, oilpan leaks on rotaries are fairly common. To think that you should/would return a perfectly good running engine on account of an oil PAN leak is just ludicrous in my mind. IF it were the block itself leaking something, that would be another matter entirely.

To my point, when I build a LONG block I do my best to get the oilpan to seal...I use a new gasket and a moderate coating on each side of said gasket of ultra black RTV (the same stuff I use for all the engine sealing needs) after cleaning off both mating surfaces with a rotary wire brush. I don't know what more you can do. So when I do this, I hope it doesnt leak, and it usually doesnt, but if you have one of those few that does, I certainly do not want to hear about how bad of a job I did, or about how you want to return an engine for warranty work over an oil leak. This is why I say I do not guarantee against an oil leak...not that I expect it to, but I'm just watching my back in regards to picky customers.

As for my personal opinion on the matter, yes I do feel an oil pan leak is a very trivial concern. Look around on this forum...you have people with engine FIRES, busted coolant seals, blown apex seals, blown turbos, constant flooding, etc. etc. I feel that if your worst issue with your 7 is an oilpan leak, you're doing better than 95% of the owners out there.

 

Thank you Project 84 for your response. Sense no one else has.

Project 84 wrote: You might want to think about changing the oil pan.

Igoski1 wrote: One mechanic told me to use the gasket sealer “The Right Stuff” by NAPA. He said it would seal anything even without a gasket. It did not. I dried using another oil pan. Nothing would seal the oil pan leak.

Project 84 wrote: It easier and cheaper than changing the motor.

The problem I had with the oil pan seal is with an engine that is no longer mine. That problem with that engine is history. My new problem is I do not want history to repeat it’s self. I need another engine. Kevin said, “An oil pan seal leak is really a trivial thing.” I do not agree with Kevin, with a newly rebuilt engine, an oil pan seal leak is a really trivial thing! I think an oil pan leak from a new engine is a BIG thing. Kevin also said, “I do not however guarantee against an oilpan leak, and certainly would not take back a perfectly good engine on account of that.”

Project 84 wrote: I have delt with Kevin, and have recommended him to others. I don't have any negative things to say about him, his work, nor have I heard anything negative from others.

I will take your comments about Kevin into consideration when I make my decision about him rebuilding my engine. But, I find it hard to believe he would not guarantee against an oil pan leak on a new rebuilt engine of his. Any newly rebuilt engine should not leak from the oil pan seal. I do not understand why he would make a comment like, “is really a trivial thing.”


Project 84 wrote: You might want to think about changing the oil pan.

Igoski1 wrote: One mechanic told me to use the gasket sealer “The Right Stuff” by NAPA. He said it would seal anything even without a gasket. It did not. I dried using another oil pan. Nothing would seal the oil pan leak.

Project 84 wrote: It easier and cheaper than changing the motor.

The problem I had with the oil pan seal is with an engine that is no longer mine. That problem with that engine is history. My new problem is I do not want history to repeat it’s self. I need another engine. Kevin said, “An oil pan seal leak is really a trivial thing.” I do not agree with Kevin, with a newly rebuilt engine, an oil pan seal leak is a really trivial thing! I think an oil pan leak from a new engine is a BIG thing. Kevin also said, “I do not however guarantee against an oilpan leak, and certainly would not take back a perfectly good engine on account of that.”

Project 84 wrote: I have delt with Kevin, and have recommended him to others. I don't have any negative things to say about him, his work, nor have I heard anything negative from others.

I will take your comments about Kevin into consideration when I make my decision about him rebuilding my engine. But, I find it hard to believe he would not guarantee against an oil pan leak on a new rebuilt engine of his. Any newly rebuilt engine should not leak from the oil pan seal. I do not understand why he would make a comment like, “is really a trivial thing.”

RETed wrote: Kevin Landers is right. Getting an oil pan to seal perfectly is next to impossible on these engines.

Thanks. I guess I will go to Kevin for my rebuild. But I will also make sure he installs the oil pan, and look to see if it is leaking before I leave with it. Is there any other tricks to use to seal one.

 

IF you'd like me to wait until you arrive to pick the engine up for us BOTH to install this all-important gasket, you are welcome to do so, and personall view/inspect the process. I don't know what you are going to tell me that I do not already know, however.

This is odd...

 

Hey Kevin. Good to see you on line here. And thanks for responding to my post. There are a lot that are recommending you as a re-builder. I hope you can see my concern about a new re build and a new oil leak. I also can see your point about the oil pan and this engine. I am still working on getting the other engine prepared for you.

 

VW uses some really trick oil pan sealer on their new motors. but its expensive, like 15-20$ a tube, its silver in color, and never dries, kinda like the hylomer they use on rotary rebuilds. and fills the imperfections in the seal. its called i think 'three bond' they use it on motorcycles and such too, for the different bike places called like hondabond/yamahabond/harleybond. im not saying this will work, but they use it on just about every new car and motorcycles now a days, but they have almost perfectley flat machined surfaces, but in any case, i hope this helps....

-Daniel

 

Thanks Daniel for your input. Any and all comments are wanted and helpful. Hopefully Kevin will be able to seal the pan when the engine is rebuilt. Considering the way the engine is bolted together and the way the engine mount is through the pan, I can under stand why it may be difficult to seal the pan. If the new re-build will not seal the pan, I will use your suggestion. If I have another seal leak problem, I am sure it will help.

 

You might want to check out this trick from the "other forum".
It's not usually that I crosspost references like this, but it has it's merits.
If all else fails, this might fix your problem.

I, personally, don't like doing this (to the oil pan), because it might warp the oil pan flange even more.

http://www.nopistons.com/forums/inde...howtopic=30113
(No, you don't need to be a member to view the thread.)


-Ted

 

When you guys talk about the oil pan leaking...does it leak all around the bottom of the engine casing (near the suspension etc.)? And if it is leaking all around that area is that a sign that the engine is going out or that i needa major job done to the engine? ps...the car runs fine...i just smell burnt oil...

 

Hey Ted. Thanks for posting that info. The thread at no pistons was very informing. I will try this. Also, Kevin said something about this technique. So he knows about it. I am going to have him do my rebuild so we will work out something with this mod to the pan and bottom of the engine. Thanks.

 

Hey 2nd GRX-7. I don’t know much. But it just sounds like you have the oil pan problem that I had. I am having a rebuild done. And I am just trying to start with out an oil leak. There is a good thread @ http://www.nopistons.com/forums/ind...showtopic=30113 that is about the same thing. My leak was from the motor mount around to half way down the backside. Every were else was sealed fine.

 

I hope you are satisfied with your engine once Rotary Resurrection and good luck to you!


-Ted