FEDREX

IMO, you have more tuning freedom w/GC.
1. you can select spring rates
2. you can select spring heights
3. you can select brand of shock

Example: tuning a suspension is fairly technical, combining the synergistic workings of sway bar diameters, spring rates, shock rebound/compression rate, ride height, etc.

Just having the ability to choose springs in itself gives more adjustability in dialing personal preferences Re: understeer/oversteer.

In my case I wasn't quite satisfied with the standard pkg. Eibach ERS springs and ended up selecting higher rate springs from GC (flexibility)

(btw, GC uses Eibach Race Series linear-rate springs)

Silkworm

How do you figure that you don't lose strut travel with a lowered threaded body strut? I can't see how that would make a difference.?? I guess I'm just not seeing how that works. Do you have a link to the JIC struts? I looked at Tein's site already..

PaulC

JagdStealth

That's what I'm saying, only the cheap coil-overs (Tein HAs) are of the sort your thinking of!

Cusco, JIC, Apex'i, etc. have their top of the line products that are much more advanced compared to what we usually see. Tein also sells much nicer versions in Japan (which you can order over here now!).

The standard JIC FLT-A2:
http://www.jic-magic.com/susp/flta2/flta2_series.htm

If you want a REAL setup, you can have JIC set one up for you, it's based on the FLT-A2 but you can order with custom spring rates, helper springs, etc.
http://www.jic-magic.com/susp/flta2r..._rs_series.htm

This is what I mean by real coil-overs. The Tein HA series are bottom of the rung coil-overs, getting a set of JIC's makes a huge difference.

Silkworm

Ok, I found some info on the JIC setup, I see what you mean now, they get that adjustability by raising and lowering the entire strut assembly within the mount. How much adjustment do you get there?

Of course, they cost twice as much as a GC setup, or even my Koni single adjustable/Mazdaspeed setup, and the pillow ball top appears to be camber adjustable only (no caster adjustment)..

JagdStealth

The JIC FLT-A2s I used allowed me to adjust the car until the tires were rubbing on the fenders...

They cost a bit more, but there were much better than a Koni/GC setup I sued (custom ordered spring rates) and blew the Tein HAs away.

I only like the Tein over the GC/koni for the higher level of adjustment (16way), and the mounts!

Of course some camber adjusment plates, pillow mounts, Koni's, and GCs would make up for that difference, but then your spending more than the Teins anyway.

Silkworm

The sleeve/lack of is not the issue, the ability to lengthen/shorten the overall strut length is the key ability to keeping strut travel in that design, IMHO. Still doesn't make it a 'true' coilover in my book, in both cases they're coil overs. These just have a nice additional feature.

That doesn't look like fun to adjust though. It's nice with the Koni setup, right in the strut/shock tops, no crawling around to change settings.

PaulC

JagdStealth

Inverted monotube strut allows you to adjust from the top, just like the Koni's.

Racing a Stealth around Buttonwillow and Sears Point I was able to dial in much better track times with the FLT-A2s vs. Ground Control and Tein HA. might have been the driver though

My new FC should be a much more fun "track" car than the Stealth. Not as fast (yet), but much lighter and better suited to smaller tracks.

Silkworm

Oh, good, because the web site you pointed me to had the adjustment on the bottom..

Yeah, the FC will be more fun on track, I see too many 3S cars going home on trailers with dead motors or trannies.

PaulC

OC_

The thing about the FLT-A2's that is good but somthing that most people will never use is the ability to preload the springs. on GC's or just about any mass marketed CO i can think of right now, the spring is free to bounce around if the shock is fully extended, sometimes they put a little helper spring in to prevent that, BUT with the FLT-A2's and the way its set up, that cant happen, and you can actually squash the spring in its perches to increas rate. And you can do this with out effecting ride hight. I dont think anyone would take advantage of this on the street. But for racing, thats a whole nother' game.

RETed

I've heard some nasty things about those Tein and JIC coilover systems; the shock dyno shows very little damping changes between adjustments.&nbsp This makes the gazillion adjustment detents rather useless.

I've ridden in an S13 240SX with a set of Teins with 8kg-mm/6kg-mm F/R set-up, and the car was rather soft compared to my FC with 400in-lb/325in-lb F/R Ground Controls with Tokico Illuminas.&nbsp The cars are approximately the same weight, but the S13 does run a "wishbone" rear (but MacPherson front - same as FC).&nbsp Still, it was rather weird.

I find a lot of the Japan coilover/damper systems rather overpriced for their performance, but a lot of people still want them.&nbsp Go figure...


-Ted

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

Since we're talking coilovers and we are mentioning all the options, why aren't those cheap "ricer style" coilovers bad/good? No one has given me a real answer other than the springs are not Eibachs. Why are GC's better? As Silkworm said, I can't see how you're going to break the threaded sleeve...

Bigretardhead

does anyone have any experience with GAB or cusco coilovers?

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

all this is confusing me... say I wanted to lower my car 1.5 ish inches, and I want decent spring rates / comfy damping if I ever go on a highway trip, but around town and when autocrossing or on a track day, high rates with firm damping are acceptable. Which setup works best for someone who's just a "weekend" racer, and only goes to 2-3 track events a year, but still wants decent handling most of the time.. ?

I've heard alot of good and a lot of bad about the GCs.. who's right? Do they have inverted struts, or just "regular" struts? (I like to play in the dirt sometimes, too... ) Anyone have a link to a website that reviews them/whatever?

JagdStealth

Ground controls don't come with struts. They are simply a set of springs that come with a threaded sleeve to allow you to adjust ride height. This sleeve fits over your existing struts, so strut choice is free for you to choose.

If your a weekend racer, save yourself the cash and buy a set of Ground Controls and decent struts (Tociko 5-way).

But, if your going to spend more than $850 total, I would get the Tein coil-over setup. It'll be a complete package with a nice set of struts and they cost just under $1000.

visit:
www.groundcontrol.com for info about ground control.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

thanks!

My budget is probably going to be minimal on this project... but we'll see.

Tocikos are good struts?

ARD T2

iTrader: (22)

I'll be back on this tommorrow. I have the JIC's on my FC and have GC's and most other setups. If you're in the Bay Area you should go for a ride in the GTUs.

RIshie

I'll clear all up tommorrow.

JagdStealth

I've never used then on an FC, but on an MR2 I used to race, they were great general adjustable struts for weekend AutoX and daily driving.

OC_

yea, thats always been a problem with those shocks that advertise 10000000 clicks of adjustment. It seems that on a lot of shocks that have XX clicks of adjustment, you cant even feel the difference between the first 8 clicks or so. If you look at the Koni 28xx series strut (a real race double adjustable damper BTW) i think it has only 8 clicks of adjstment.. but all the clicks actually do somthing! i was quoted at about $1400-$1800 per corner for the koni 28xx series for FC through truechoice
http://www.truechoice.com/

you really cant compair coil rates between a macphearson strut and an upper & lower control arm setup. This is because upper/lower control arms exerts leverage on the sping and macpherson doesnt. its amazing how good dampers matched to proper springs rates can make a really heavy spring feel soft, even thought that s13 had a little stiffer springs in the front. (8kg/mm is 448lb/in)
which teins did the s13 have? RA, HA? somthing else?

Truechoice also converts a knoi yellow into a true double adjustable damper with there own valves and teams them up with a GC style CO sleeve, this might be somthing to look into if you are a real racer. Iv ridden on a pair in a 4th gen firebird and i was impressed.

ARD T2

iTrader: (22)

If your budget is limited don't expect to find an inverted monotube for the FC. Your best interest is to buy a coilover. The best monotube coilover out there bang for buck is definately the JIC FLT-A2. Regardless of what has been mentioned above it is completely noticable when I change my damping settings. I don't move in ones though, just pairs or three clicks at a time.

Later, Rishie

OC_

snrub, what CO's are you talking about? im sure if you gave us a name of one, everyone here will scrutinize untill the end of the world!

Hamza734

MacPherson is NOT a company. The MacPherson strut is so named becuase the strur design was invented by Earl MacPherson, a British engineer at Ford.

Psychoblue23

arent GC's liek ricy and too bouncy?

- James

OC_

GC's get bouncy because the spring they have is out of the range of damping of the shock. Just have to make sure the shock is valved so it can handel the sping! you cant put 1000lb/in springs on a KYB GR-2 for instance. Its going to be like you dont even have shocks!

Hamza734

A few general points on coilovers.

Don't get Tein. According to a Japanese friend of mine, they're the worst, with Cusco being the best. Don't bother with Japanese coilovers. They're way too expensive.

Get the K2RD coilovers. For a little over $1100 you get KYB AGX shocks, your choice of springs, camber & caster adjustment and pillowball mounts. Also, Paul Ko is a very good person to deal with. Unlinke certain vendors...

fabianbarcenas

k2rd has to update its website
its been under construction for like ever.
does anyone know when they will be back or can we order their coilovers threw someone?