My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

Nothing illegal about wanting to be able to stop when needed. I've been very glad that I have the stopping power that I do at times. Deer + small sports car = not good.

5 lugs:
Option of having the 4 piston setup
Allow for ABS
Better tires available
Bigger discs

RETed

I've never had any problems doing that with STOCK BRAKES.


-Ted

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

Nor have I. But it's never a bad thing to have more stopping power...

I'm not disagreeing with you. I think that the stock brakes/system is adequate and good. I'm just saying that if he wants it I wouldn't consider it a waste of money.

Maybe I'm a pessimist, but maybe someday that extra 5 feet or whatever he gained will make the difference between killing a kid (or something) and stopping/avoiding them.

I see it kind of like how I don't have an airbag. I've never needed one, but that doesn't mean I don't prefer one or think it wouldn't help.

RETed

Not necessarily...
There's a lengthy article out there that about what exactly improves braking performance, and it's...

TIRES.

I prefer a more BALANCED braking system.
If you increase braking performance of the braking system with all other components being kept constant, you end up flat-spotting your tires easier / quicker.
Thus, this is not necessarily a good thing.

I agree with the replies that TIRES is the best option to increase braking performance.
Even STOCK BRAKES will lock up stock sized (205 or even 225 wide) tires, so what's the use getting more "grippier" brakes?


-Ted

Jager

iTrader: (10)

If hitting people is a problem, he can drive slower?

Healing

Stock 4 pistons or stock single pistons? Because it seems there's a pretty large difference between the two...or am I just imagining it?

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

How dare you even suggest that!

Heh, although I agree, even driving below the speed limit doesn't ensure you won't get in an accident.

Once again, I agree that tires are the biggest braking performance upgrade (as put in bolt in my original post).

What would you suggest as a basic upgrade? Such as, with the stock system performing as it's supposed to, what would you suggest as far as tire upgrades(size, stickiness...)? Assuming ABS and 4 piston.

I'll admit not being an expert, but the point I was trying to make is that being able to stop quicker/shorter distance is a good thing. I may have misrepresented that with my presentation, termonology, etc.

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

I'd assume 4 piston. We're talking about being able to brake better, let's pretend the single pistons don't exist .

Also RETed, how much would you say the ABS system helps? How would it affect what tire choice?

Gotta ask to learn.

RETed

It doesn't matter.
Either set of brakes will lock up stock sized tires no problem.


-Ted

RETed

It has been proven time and time again, that ABS does not make for a faster race car on a controlled course.

ABS was designed to allow your average Joe Consumer to be able to keep the car under control under "adverse" road conditions - basically, when the road is wet.
The advantage of ABS is that it allows you to steer and brake at the same time without the rear end coming around on you.
Anyone who has practiced "threshold braking" does not need ABS.
It does not necessarily allows you to stop faster or better.
If you can practice threshold braking, you can get the car to stop just as fast as a car with ABS.
Those drivers that dunno how to threshold brake can just mash the brake pedal as hard as they want to without fear of the car spinning out of control - this is what ABS allows your average driver to do...


-Ted

garlic

agree with RETed about braking technique, the one I know is brush and dump... where before you want to actually brake, your stab the brakes, then let off, and brake as hard as you like, you don't skid. I guess this works great on the track (my application) but not so well on the street when instinct takes over (just hit the brake as hard as possible)

RETed, can you describe threshhold braking? My initial guess would be you hold the brakes at the point just before the lock up?

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

I wasn't referring to track driving because that isn't what he's planning to do. I do know that ABS is for adverse conditions.

However, I didn't know that threshold braking is just as effective. I figured it was close, but wasn't sure exactly how it compared. Is there a difference in the 4 piston vs single piston when threshold braking?

RETed

Yep, threshold braking is being able to hit the brakes without locking the (front) tires up.
The way I do it is almost how you describe the "brush and dump" but with a little bit more finesse.
I think we all tend to initially hit the brake pedal too much, but I've been able to back off the initial brake stab just enough to prevent the tires locking up.
Braking technique...as easy as it sounds...is a very advanced *driving* technique that is very difficult to master.
I actually transitioned from trailing braking (just to get the rear to rotate quicker) into threshold braking.
I find that learning how to trail brake gives you a good idea of how much is too much braking, since it's easier for your mind / body to sense change of direction.
Threshold braking is basically taking trailing braking (in a VERY general sense) and doing it in a straight line...
You need to be able to sense when the tires lock up - weight shift, front end dive, etc.
This is one of those things that can consume volumes to try and describe in text and words; it's a LOT easier to explain hands-on in the vehicle.


-Ted

RETed

As logical as that sounds, you're actually wrong.
Have you ever driven on a track before?
How about autocross?

You learn a LOT about your car's dynamics at speed.
It's the best way to learn this kinda stuff.

All of what you learn on the track can be easily applied on the street...amazingly.


-Ted

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

I'm not sure how I can be wrong by saying that my post wasn't in reference to something... but whatever.

No, and no. I don't have access to either. However, I do go out in my car and practice/experiment with different things, including braking. For example, I find a big empty parking lot and practice driving when it's wet (braking, how to react if the rear end comes out... etc.). Is that the best way? Probably not. But I do what I can.

I, along with a lot of people, had never driven a non-ABS equipped car before their 7. It took a lot of getting used to. I'm still not completely confident in myself when it's wet/slippery, but a lot more so than when I first started driving it.

While we're stating the obvious... "practice makes perfect".

jgrewe

iTrader: (1)

How about lightening your car? Cheap and you can keep your old tires and still stop in that "5 foot less" distance.

Still, flush out the old fluid.

LittleCon

oh yea, thats a good idea too, thanks

edmcguirk

Most of the brake caliper and rotor upgrades do not affect stopping distance. They affect brake fade which is a good thing but you are not likely to experience brake fade on the street.

How many times do you have to make even two long hard stops in less than a minute?

If you can get fade in one stop then there is something seriously wrong with your brakes.


On the other hand, if you can jam the breaks and lock the tires, then your brakes are working as good as your tires will permit.

The absolute biggest thing you can do to stop faster by far is better tires. I even go so far as to run track tires on the street. They'll wear out in a year or so but IMO it's worth it. (of course they're a little squirrely in the rain)


Now, if you want better feel from the brake peddle, then you can get into all the little tweeks.

Fresh fluid is very nice.
New pad and rotors will help a bit too. (stock is quite good enough)
Check the wheel bearings. A tiny wobble in the wheels can ruin brake feel.
SS brake lines are good but I've never seen large differences on any car I've installed them on.

Like jgrewe said, I race and the rules dictate stock brakes. They work fine. I have even used stock pads on the track and they worked well too but they wore out in about 1/2 hour.

Tires. Tires. Tires.

ed

NeCr0mStR

iTrader: (3)

Indeed... especially if the pads are going to cost the most.

RETed

Actually, it's not.
Hawk HPS' go for easily under $100 "per axle".
How much do rotors go for?
Ever checked out how much a "big brake kit" goes for???


-Ted

KingCobraV9

iTrader: (2)

ok heres a question for you. my front brakes never lock up but my rears always do when i stop really hard? 4piston w/ new rotors and pads all arround. ponder......

anyway cheep is a bad word. i would say for starters (cheeper stuff) compleatly change your fluid, rebuild or get a new master cyl. adjust the pedal-mc clearance if needed. new pads and resurfaced rotors then come the pricey stuff

RETed

Crappy rear tires
Seized front brakes
Bad front brake pads
Malfunctioning brake master cylinder


-Ted

KingCobraV9

iTrader: (2)

225/50-16 potenza, new calipers, could be shitty pads, new master cyl. tahnks ill get pads

RETed

"Potenza" could mean a lot of things?
RE92?
RE01?
S-02?
S-03?


-Ted

wishIhadanFC

I know i should prob start another thread for this but quick question. I upgraded to 4 piston fronts but never touched the rears which are still solid rotors. what needs to be changed over other than the rotor? caliper carriers?