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iTrader: (7)

I know I have been pushing a little too much boost lately, and am going to keep it around 8lbs. (when its running properly again) until some more safety modifications can be made, including new oil cooler lines, possibly an fpr and a more beefed up ems. SAFC handles all the basic stuff, but if I want to safely add boost to this engine I need to start cleaning things up and a get more tuneable ems.

Speaking of cleaning up, the vacuum hoses have been rerun since this picture, further away from the turbo. I'm unaware of what AST stands for haha. The IAT sensor is mounted in the Greddy tb elbow, right before the Throttle body.

Also, the shroom filter is an HKS filter (not that it being HKS means "IT IS THE BEST FILTER EVER" but i haven't had any issues with it), and the foam has a solid support. There are a lot of hose clamps, but that being said there is not a lot of high angle bends in the piping at all, which minimizes the amount of pressure being put on the couplers and the clamps as well. I double clamped the only 45* bend hose that goes into the intake to minimize issues as well. But we'll see what tomorrow and a serious vacuum check finds.

cone_crushr

iTrader: (18)

While you're explaining your setup, can you clarify the above comment. I presumed the 'directly to battery' statement meant you bypassed the resistor, especially when you mention measuring 12V at the FP. Now I'm not so sure, especially since you're using a Walbro. The stock ECU will flood the motor with a 12V Walbro once you disconnect a tuned SAFC. You may be saturating the stock regulator. Bottom line: Check your fuel pressure.

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iTrader: (7)

I have an inline walboro 255lph pump that is ran through a relay directly to the battery. The stock fb fuel pump wiring gives the ignition on to switch over the relay for the fuel pump. None of the stock FC wiring for the fuel pump relay is connected to the pump, only from the ecu and back to itself.

I haven't changed anything since I installed the motor over a year ago and I never had issues. SAFC II is still installed, the fuel map in SAFC is just zero'd out- so its just the stock fuel maps from the ECU. I suppose that could overload the regulator like you said, I will be checking fuel pressure as well as finishing looking for vacuum leaks tomorrow. However, I did try adding fuel using SAFC and was able to get the engine to rev over 2000 rpms, I had to add 11-18% fuel throughout the rpm-band for me to do so. Which leads me to believe at this point its still a vacuum leak issue.

I did find some minor leaks in the IC piping that were fixed, and I'm getting a pretty noisy leak from what sounds like its coming from around the turbo. My best guess at this point is that the lower intake manifold gasket has a sizable leak. I will try to confirm tomorrow.

cone_crushr

iTrader: (18)

Awesome plan. You're on you way to having a smooth running ride, and you know your car much better now. Rotary love.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

this is why you have a list starting with the basics. this way its a PROCESS of elimination instead of guessing.

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iTrader: (7)

So, I did not get to the fuel pressure today- couldn't find the proper fitting for my inline gauge. I did checked for compression in the front housing again today, in the 40's on all faces and read 110 overall. I think the engine might have had excess fuel in the front housing which skewed the initial reading.

I also finished checking for vacuum leaks. The lower intake manifold gasket was in good shape, but one of my block-off plates on the LIM was leaking and as I expected 2 of my injectors had air leaks as well. I'm replacing the grommets for the injectors tomorrow, and I resealed the block-off plate and took care of any remaining leaks in the IC piping.

The engine was idling much better and was holding 15inHG vacuum at idle, even with the leaking injector grommets. I set base timing for the engine last week, but I started checking ignition timing today and found out my leading was at 11*, so I set it to the stock 5*, and while trying to set the trailing could not get a signal on the timing light from the front rotor trailing plug... I could get the timing light to work on the 2nd rotor trailing plug. I'm not sure if that means its a bad plug or a bad coil? (possibly i fouled the trailing plug as well, when the engine was only running on the rear rotor?) I'm going to pull the trailing plugs tomorrow, clean them and try to finish setting the timing. I will say though, that setting the leading timing did help even out the idle and I can free rev the engine a lot easier at this point. Both subsequently from fixing the vacuum leaks and probably adjusting the timing.

Monty, I got your sensor in today, and its in great shape. Funny thing though, as you suspected the voltages came out the same on your sensor and its probably not my issue. (I still want to finish getting the vacuum stuff sorted before I try driving it again) That isn't the funny thing though! I noticed on your sensor, it says N370. On both my AFM and my MAP, it says NF01.



So, I have a 20b AFM and a 20b MAP sensor right now. (these were the sensors given to me by Japan2LA with my s5 complete swap. I assumed they were the right sensors and didn't even think to check) This might explain why I've always ran pig-*** rich on the engine ever since I got it. I never even thought to look if the sensor was correct. J9, perhaps you can chime in here- I found this thread:

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...light=nf01+13b

It basically explains that the 20b AFM pulls way more cfm's than a TII afm, and this could possibly be part of my problem. Regardless, I need to do some research on how the MAP sensor differs from a N370 map sensor, and I couldn't find much information the boards. Maybe J9 has some more information on the differentiation between the two?

Although it was a productive day, and cutting down on the vacuum leaks helped tremendously, I still definitely have more to do.

cone_crushr

iTrader: (18)

The hits just keep on coming. Man, this thread is going to grow now.

Pressure Sensor: Glad the USPS was effective and you like the sensor. No point in hunting for differences between the N370 & NF01 sensors since you've already verified the volts vs Pr and know they match - They're interchangeable. The same can't be said for the AFM however.

AFM: since there are size and configuration differences between the N370 & NF01 AFM, their calibration curves likely differ also. This is not good, but you might be able to compensate with the SAFC. If I were you, I'd just install an aftermarket ECU ($$$) and scrap the AFM headache (and pita SAFC). That said, I do have a N370 AFM if you'd like to acquire it .

Re. Fuel injector vacuum leaks: My experience is that injector leaks are typically due to aging orings in the air bleeds rather than the injector grommets. You should replace all the rubber bits. The bitch is removing the brittle air bleeds without destroying them (hint: use a pair of hooked picks). Good luck with that.

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iTrader: (7)

My friend and I were contemplating what it would take to install a Greddy emanage blue he has laying around. Except, I can't find any information as to how one would set up emanage blue for a 20b afm.

I did find this pdf manual: http://aeclipseguy.tripod.com/pdf/em...coperation.pdf

which has some basics on how it would be set up, but I don't think it contains all the information I need.

The U.S. Emanage blue manual does not include anything for the 20b platform, and I can't find a japanese manual anywhere

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iTrader: (7)

I cleaned the trailing plugs with electronic cleaner and a brass brush, the front trailing plug was damp and loaded with carbon- again probably from me fouling the leading plug and the engine only half running. After I cleaned the plugs I was getting a reading from the trailing plug wire for timing, and it was basically in spec. 21* atdc on the red mark. I also checked the resistance of my plug wires for peace of mind and all of them are within spec. they are 1.5ft to 2ft cables and all of them are around 3.6-3.8 kohms resistance.

I'm still waiting on the injector o-ring kit. It'll be in at my parts store after 3:30. Gotta love being unable to find rx-7 tune up parts/kits at the auto store and having to order them in. That being said, the engine will rev up to 5-6k rpms free rev now but only if i ease into the throttle.

I'm sure the afm has something to do with this, but I'm unsure to what extent. With safc, if i increase fuel on the low-throttle map 7-10% from 800rpms-2000 rpm's I can punch the throttle and it will not bog like it has been. This makes the engine idle weird, and if I REMOVE fuel 14-15% at 800rpms the engine will idle very well, but giving the engine little throttle input makes the engine bog down at this setting. So...I need to cut fuel for proper idle, but add fuel to be able to drive the car?

cone_crushr

iTrader: (18)

sGood to hear you're focused on the real problem and making progress. That's a great explanation of the limitations of the SAFC. There are insufficient grid points to control the fuel map. Sealing the injector vac leaks will help your dilemma - just remember rule #1: better too rich than too lean.

My other piece of advice is that tuning a car without a wideband is a fools errand. You'll be working blind without one; there's no excuse to skimp on the most effective tuning tool ever invented. You'll know decisively if you can make the SAFC work or not once you see your AFR's. Just weld a bung into your down pipe and mount the gage.

I'm not familiar with the Greddy emanage, but running a bandaid for the 20B AFM seems like a terrible idea. It's 2012 you know. Just get an Rtek7 chip and be done with it.

Oh and I should have mentioned that in case your injector oring kit omits the air bleed orings, the Harbor Freight metric oring kit includes proper sizes to do the job. Good luck.

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iTrader: (7)

I have a wideband mounted in my downpipe and hooked up already, but I'm not sure its giving good readings. Does continuous premix mess up wideband sensors?

Going to borrow my friend's wideband this week to get a good look at the AFR's. Can I get my n374 chipped for Rtek? I thought they would only do USDM ecu's.

Also, I replaced the orings, the grommets and lower seats. vacuum is good to go. Still having the same issues.

cone_crushr

iTrader: (18)

Uh, you're right, unfortunately a Rtek may not be the best answer, although it does work with the N374* ECU, it still retains the AFM.

Checking fuel pressure is still a good idea, then you can start (re)tuning. Sounds easy, but not really. Hope you're weekend is free.

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iTrader: (7)

Agreed on checking fuel. I'm picking up some fittings for my gauge tomorrow too. After the fuel rails in the system, what type of pressure should I be expecting?

cone_crushr

iTrader: (18)

Well, with the stock regulator you should see stock pressure levels. The problem arises because the Walbro pump outputs 50%-75& more fuel at higher than stock pressures (partially due to disabling the FP resistor, which I actually recommend). By overwhelming the OEM FPR, the pressure becomes unstable. Since I have an in-cabin FP gage, I've seen this with my own eyes and this convinced me to install an aftermarket FPR.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

keep the 20B afm, it may not work with the stock ECU, but if you chip it its an upgrade, just because it can flow more. if you could find the correct N370 AFM that would be good.

i will look in the cosmo book, but AFIK the NF01 and N370 sensors are both 2 bar map sensors, so they should interchange and work fine. actually i know it will, i've used the NF01 on my old haltech/3 rotor car.

but i have the book, and its got some neat graphs in it, so i'll scan it with the rest of the books!

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iTrader: (7)

I was seeing 49-50psi from the fuel filter to the pulsation dampener on the feed line at ignition on. Spec via the FSM for the stock pump is 34-39.8psi. The FSM also says to turn the ignition off after 10 seconds and watch the gauge because it should come down to 18psi after 5 minutes. Mine slowly dropped to 10psi, but over the course of about 30 seconds. Perhaps my injectors themselves are leaking?

Also, quick question making sure this is a suitable way to check pressure to the return line: Am I able to remove the UIM to check the fuel pressure from the rails to the return line? Or does the engine have to be on? I tried checking it this way with just ignition on, and the gauge was reading 0psi, so I'm thinking I have to have the manifold on and engine on, or that is an issue as well.. My dilemma is that I cannot get my gauge installed into the fuel line with the manifold on. It's a too tight of space to make it work, unless I bent the hard line.


J9, thanks for scanning that info! I'm curious to read more about the maf and its differences...or at least see some more pictures, if its in japanese.

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iTrader: (7)

I also pulled the vacuum line to the stock FPR after I let the engine warm up and turned it off to see if the fpr diaphragm was ruptured. It was not leaking any fuel. I got my buddy's innovate wideband today, going to see what kind of AFR's im getting and see if I can tune my idle using safc.

cone_crushr

iTrader: (18)

Your idle FP is excessive, so I've got to recommend an aftermarket FPR. You may be a gamber though, so go ahead and see if it's tunable with a wideband. I've always been confused by previous posts where you mention adding fuel when it seems logical that you'd have to remove it based on your high FP? My guess would be that you're primarily correcting the AFM cal (?).

Your injectors might be leaking, but a leaking FP check valve is way more likely. Try running a tank of redline fuel injector cleaner if you want, but I still recommend staying focused on tuning your car first.

I'm trying to withhold comment on your side projects .

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iTrader: (7)

To be honest, I'm a little unsure why adding fuel allows the engine to rev more free and bog less. It might be compensation for the 20b afm, but that's a guess.

I agree that tuning comes first. I'm going to put the wideband on tomorrow and get a better idea of what my AFR's are, and have a better idea of seeing what needs to be done. I need to get this car drive-able again, and the sooner the better.

How would one check the fuel pressure check valve?

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iTrader: (7)

Hooked up the wideband, and even at 0% fuel added at 800rpms on SAFC, the car was reading 12.1 AFR. After pulling 20% fuel at 800rpms, i was able to get the engine to 13.4 AFR at idle, and the engine revved very freely, to be honest, I was really surprised. Throughout the rpm-band at 0% fuel added on the low-throttle setting I was seeing 12.1-12.5 AFR's and was able to pull 10% fuel throughout the band and maintain low 13 afr's.

Then, the engine stalled and died out of nowhere. And I couldn't get it to start again. I checked the plugs and they were not soaked, so on a hunch I disconnected the MAF and I could get the engine to start and stay running if i gave it some throttle, otherwise it would stall out. I reconnected the MAF and wasn't able to get it to start again, and so I went ahead and checked the resistances of the MAF to see if it had gone bad.

Both Vs<->E2 (voltage signal to ecu) and Vc<->E2 (reference 5v signal to maf) were reading out of limit on my multimeter. The IAT in the MAF was reading 1.28kohms. I went ahead checked the voltages to the MAF, just to make sure the wiring was good too and the voltages to the MAF were in spec.

Obviously the resistance values for the MAF were bad, is there any other way to verify if its the issue besides buying a new MAF?

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iTrader: (7)

EDIT: Sorry, was wrong about the voltage signal reading. Voltage signal from MAF to the ECU was showing 4.98v, spec for FSM at ignition on is 4v

cone_crushr

iTrader: (18)

One step forward, two steps back. Good to know you're on the right track.

Rotaries like a rich idle, better to shoot for 12.8-13.0 AFR for a stable idle. Check if adding more fuel permits the engine to startup.

Can your post your AFM resistance readings across Vs-E2 & Vc-E2, saying it 'failed' only makes me curious (measure a few times to confirm). Your voltage readings only confuse things. I still think a S5 AFM would simplify diagnostics, but if the 20B can be made to work, it'll save you a few bucks (although the extra tuning hassle may not be worth it).

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iTrader: (7)

I tried both adding up to 20% fuel and subtracting up to 20% fuel to try and start it...It would kick a couple times like it wanted to, but the engine would not start. I also tried holding the throttle wide open while starting in case it was flooded, and tried rolling it over with the fuel pump turned off.. It would not start until I pulled the connector to the MAF.

I measured a few times from Vs<->E2 and Vc<->E2 and all my multimeter would read was out of limit. For reference, all of the other pins on the MAF were reading properly; E2<->E2 was reading .1ohms and as I said before the IAT<->E2 was reading 1.28khohms. But I will check it again tomorrow and see if I can actually get a reading from the Vc and Vs pins.

One thing I did notice too, when checking the voltage of the Vs wire (voltage signal wire), even when I pushed the plunger on the MAF in, it would stay at 4.98v; it would not decrease in voltage how it is supposed to.

cone_crushr

iTrader: (18)

Really strange. Thanx for clarifying your strategy. That's exactly what I would have done.

Your multimeter is not serving you well here. Can you manually override the autoranging feature to get a reading? The circuit is either open or has a measurable resistance. You need to determine which.

I must conclude you are measuring across the wrong pins. Can you list the wire colors and associated pin ID of your AFM connector. Once you do this, we should be able to conclude if you need another AFM.

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iTrader: (7)

Man, this is weird. I went out and checked everything again and took pictures just to verify so I don't seem stupid/crazy. I set my multimeter to its highest range setting for resistance:

For Vs<->E2



VC<->E2


E2<->E2 (For reference)


IAT<->E2 (reading 1.7kohms if you cannot see the 1)


Voltage readings for Vs, Vc, and IAT:


Vs: (Voltage signal to ECU)


Vc: (Voltage reference from ECU)


IAT: (for reference)




Then, with the MAF plug connected I was able to start the engine if i held the throttle wide open, and it started giving me correct readings!!


Vs:


And I checked for resistance again and Vs<->E2 was reading 300ohms, and Vc<->E2 was reading 298ohms!

Also, the hesitation and low-rpm bogging started again when the MAF started reading properly. Is the MAF sticking?