'89Vert

Just like the title says, i'm thinkin about goin with a carb from racing beat. I searched and found some interesting debates on this from a couple of years back, but nothing really recently. Nor did i find many straight answers. Has anyone done it since then and liked it? i know the basic downsides are not being able to electronically tune it with a computer or hand held controller.

My downside to an EMS is that i'll never be able to afford to do it right, so this seems like a way to get some decent cheap power, especially considering i know a mechanic experienced with tuning carbs. Plus it kind of adds to the old school feel.

BTW my mods are: HKS Sport catback, Bonez intake system, New Bosch plugs and wires, BFG G-Force tires. Soon getting KYB AGX struts.

YearsOfDecay

Gas prices are skyrocketing and you are planning on doing this??????/

If you do it.. better put a header on it or you won't see any real gains from the carb, racing beat guys told me that the biggest gains when using a header versus a downpipe off the stock manifold are seen when doin a carb conversion setup... you need the extra flow for a carb to work more efficiently.

mwatson184

I got 25 mpg with my carb setup, it was better than the 22 i was getting w/ the stock FI.

I do however agree that you should invest in a header with the carb.

Marques

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

How exactly is carb any cheaper than a decent EFI setup?

mwatson184

I bought an manifold on ebay for 130, a pressure regulator for 15 bucks, and a holley 600 in need of a rebuild for 90. 35 bucks for a nice rebuild kit. Free for the rebuild (by me with a few mods)

That is 270 + some other odds'n'ends (fuel lines and fittings), and a little time invested. Build me a decent EFI setup for that and you will be my hero.

Racing Beat overprices their stuff, they charge 6 or 7 hundred dollars for their kit, and I'm not all that impressed with their carb. I would put a carb i built agains one of theirs and I am pretty confident I will match their drivability, power output, and gas mileage numbers.

-Marques

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Wow, that's a pretty cheap manifold. Just some random deal or is someone making them/selling them?

trainwreck517

iTrader: (1)

well look to spend at least double that for a decent carb.

mwatson184

Plain Jane used Racing Beat manifold. The carb I bought was decent, it just needed a little love as it had been sitting on a shelf for 2 years. Holley carbs are extremely easy to rebuild so you can save a little cash by buying one that needs freshening. I understand that approach is not great for everyone. I completely understand wanting to buy something new, or that you know will work as is...but it will usually end up costing you more that way.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Oh, well, that's not a very good price comparison. Getting good deals and what it'd commonly cost someone isn't a very good comparison. If that were possible I'd say my standalone EFI setup cost less than your carb setup becuase of the deals I managed to get, but since 99% of people would never get that kind of deal it doesn't really work. But in the past, it's usually found that carbing is generally around the same cost as just getting a low-end standalone (LT8, etc)

'89Vert

Well you said it right, a [I]low end standalone. Like i said in my first post, if i can't do an EFI right, I'm not going to mess with it. I also know, that not everyone is gonna want to do what MWatson does, buying a carb off the shelf and rebuilding it for cheap. I still think though that a carb setup is the way I want to go, especially when i consider price. Any recommendations?


I can see the logic in this, as opening the air flow in just one part of the engine is not going to make big gains, it's when its all free flowing that the gains are really made. So any recommendations on a header as well? Is racing beat the way to go here? It seems like the standard way to go from my research on the forum, but is it the best?

Also another possibly stupid question, what effect will porting have if i decide to do it later on with a carb?

BlaCkPlaGUE

Can a standalone by itself get you the same performance as a carb with a header? I doubt it.

Now I say I doubt it, so don't freak out and think that im telling you that your wrong, im just telling you that I disagree. This is why.

Standalone costs around lets say 800$

Now if you go with a weber 48IDA setup, your looking at

800$ carbs
300$ intake manifold
200$ exhaust manifold

Thats 1300$.

To get similar performance with the standalone, I really think you need an intake that flows better than stock. Stock was designed for drivability, not performance. If you want the same short runner style to achieve the same flow as the carb setup, your looking at

Independant throttle bodies X 2 600$ (give or take a hundred)
Weber intake manifold 300$ (adapted to fit IDTB's)
Custom fuel rail setup 300$ (give or take some right?)
Standalone 800$

So now your looking at like 1800$ and this is NA that flows just as much as the carb, except it has better fuel managment wich could result in more HP.

In the end though, for the price, carb is the way to go IMO.

Please disagree with me and tell me why

'89Vert

I should add to black plague's price comparison, cuz 800 is on the low side for a standalone for sure, wouldn't you agree?

oakback

what about megasquirt? You can buy built units for $300.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

It pretty much depends on if you go by the previous posters 'deals', or average 'new' cost. A complete IDA setup for a FC (fuel injected) would run ~850 new, and for what you can do with tuning a carb, you can pretty much make up with an SAFC. Now, why is a standalone usually better? Full control of fuel and ignition, it never goes 'out' of adjustment, and it's always going to have a 'finer' resolution and more precise control. But regardless, total cost is always dependent upon what kind of deals you get.

BGH

You are going to have to work out all
of the kinks out of the Holley carb if
you do put one on. A holley is not bolt
on, Racing Beat does a lot of mods on
there carbs for them to work right.

Parastie

Megasquirt is NOT a direct replacement. It will not work with the CAS nor will it do split spark.

There are several guys who have gotten it to work by either using EDIS or grinding away the CAS. It's certainly not for the average person.

Parastie

I got 30 with an SAFC on a 800 mile trip.


Black, I'm not sure about your assesment. While I'll agree that the stock NA manifold is certainly not designed for a lot of power, people have used it.

If you disabled the VDI and removed the 5th and 6th ports you could get nearly the same gain for far less money.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Parastie: You can easily use a dizzy, or you can piggyback it and use the stock ECU for spark, which is EXTREMELY easy.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Are you sure about that?

From all of the dyno shets I have seen, none of them show proof of this, not even with a SAFC.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

With ported stock intakes and 'active' VDI the gains are pretty close, though the carb/ida manifolds do make more.

'89Vert

This is all well and good...but which carb kit do i go with? Who makes the best?

YearsOfDecay

If you can find one..... the old Del'Orto carbs are pretty bitchin.....

I think your best best is to go into the first gen site and ask those guys.... Running an N/A with a carb is old hat to them.... Honestly, haven't delat with a carb in a LOOOONG time!!!!

All I know is that I came across this Del O'rto carb and the local first gen guy tracked me down to find it!!!

'89Vert

Good tip...totally didn't realize carb should be right down their alley...D'oh!

BlaCkPlaGUE

Oh, I couldn't agree more about owning a standalone, I really couldn't. BUT, having a standalone cannot give you better volumetric effieiciency... you need independant throttle bodies and a better intake manifold for and engine with a standalone to flow as much air as an IDA setup.

Carb is still cheaper for good performance. Its all about money. If I had unlimited funds then I'd be going standalone with independants.. but I don't, so at a time a few weeks ago, I was checking out everything there was to do with carbs, and the IDA webers seemed to be the most promising.

'89Vert

^ agree wholeheartedly, where are you looking to get yours from/done at?