A/C Charging with Easy Cheap Safe Alternative Refrigerant
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Relisys190 (05-15-20)
08-20-11 | 03:07 PM
#55
seems pretty easy to do. I'm tired of buying that stupid r134a crap. so expensive. i replaced the compressor, drier, and the expansion valve and a bunch of o-rings have been replaced as well. before i messed with the system, I had this hiss noise that would turn on with the a/c system. strangest thing. bad, but strange. now there is no hiss.
just to clarify, do all cleaning duster cans have the difluoroethane? i just bought a 3 pack today.
just to clarify, do all cleaning duster cans have the difluoroethane? i just bought a 3 pack today.
08-20-11 | 09:10 PM
#57
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From: And the horse he rode in on...
seems pretty easy to do. I'm tired of buying that stupid r134a crap. so expensive. i replaced the compressor, drier, and the expansion valve and a bunch of o-rings have been replaced as well. before i messed with the system, I had this hiss noise that would turn on with the a/c system. strangest thing. bad, but strange. now there is no hiss.
just to clarify, do all cleaning duster cans have the difluoroethane? i just bought a 3 pack today.
just to clarify, do all cleaning duster cans have the difluoroethane? i just bought a 3 pack today.
The hissing sound is usually the sound of refrigerant and flash gas (un-condensed gas) moving through the expansion valve. The flash gas does not contribute any to cooling capacity, but rather detracts from it. Can be caused by low charge, non-condensable gases in the system, by dirty condenser, low fan output or by using R134a which will only condense fully under optimal conditions.
08-21-11 | 11:00 PM
#60
I have regrettably running my S4 with no AC when it stopped working a couple of years ago. I decided to try and charge it to see if it would work and surprisingly it worked well on R134a but the next morning the system was nearly empty again. Since the day was rainy and super humid the windows were fogging up trying to drive so bad I couldn't see. I pulled off and tried to charge it up again but as soon as the compressor kicked on the engine bogged so bad it was close to stalling!! I don't know if I destroyed it the day prior but I'm very intrigued by doing this conversion since I noticed the very high pressures on the system...it was scary!
08-22-11 | 08:44 AM
#61
hmmm *looks at duster can
really nice write up imma do this as soon as i get the engine put back together. Are there any other things you should change beside the drier and o-rings to be on the safe side?
really nice write up imma do this as soon as i get the engine put back together. Are there any other things you should change beside the drier and o-rings to be on the safe side?
08-30-11 | 10:49 AM
#62
Installed the duster in my FD last night per the instructions in this thread. (thanks btw)
Problem: My AC condenser coil has a line that is very kinked. Line got kinked when vertical mounting the condenser during a front mount intercooler install. It is the goes directy from the compressor to the condenser.
When the AC comes on now, the engine is VERY labored. Is it likely that this kinked line is contributing to this?
Compunding the problem is my car is a half bridgeport on a PFC with no idle control. The car will stall and die at less than 1600 RPM idle.
I have to idle the car up to around 2500RPM to compensate for when the compressor comes on and drags it down to 1600 RPM. 2500 RPM is just tooooo high an idle for when the AC is off.
Again, is it possible or probable that a kinked line would contribute to compressor drag or does my problem probably lie in the fact that the car is a bridgeport?
Problem: My AC condenser coil has a line that is very kinked. Line got kinked when vertical mounting the condenser during a front mount intercooler install. It is the goes directy from the compressor to the condenser.
When the AC comes on now, the engine is VERY labored. Is it likely that this kinked line is contributing to this?
Compunding the problem is my car is a half bridgeport on a PFC with no idle control. The car will stall and die at less than 1600 RPM idle.
I have to idle the car up to around 2500RPM to compensate for when the compressor comes on and drags it down to 1600 RPM. 2500 RPM is just tooooo high an idle for when the AC is off.
Again, is it possible or probable that a kinked line would contribute to compressor drag or does my problem probably lie in the fact that the car is a bridgeport?
08-30-11 | 02:29 PM
#63
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From: And the horse he rode in on...
It could be a problem. Post a pic?
You may have to cut a section out and solder/weld in a clean section. Pretty easy with this: http://www.aluminumrepair.com/video_new.asp You might also straighten it out using some pliers, then if it cracks, fix the cracks with the aluminum repair stick.
I use an aluminum stick that I bought at Harbor Freight. Probably not as good as the stuff in the link but it does work well.
You may have to cut a section out and solder/weld in a clean section. Pretty easy with this: http://www.aluminumrepair.com/video_new.asp You might also straighten it out using some pliers, then if it cracks, fix the cracks with the aluminum repair stick.
I use an aluminum stick that I bought at Harbor Freight. Probably not as good as the stuff in the link but it does work well.
Installed the duster in my FD last night per the instructions in this thread. (thanks btw)
Problem: My AC condenser coil has a line that is very kinked. Line got kinked when vertical mounting the condenser during a front mount intercooler install. It is the goes directy from the compressor to the condenser.
When the AC comes on now, the engine is VERY labored. Is it likely that this kinked line is contributing to this?
Compunding the problem is my car is a half bridgeport on a PFC with no idle control. The car will stall and die at less than 1600 RPM idle.
I have to idle the car up to around 2500RPM to compensate for when the compressor comes on and drags it down to 1600 RPM. 2500 RPM is just tooooo high an idle for when the AC is off.
Again, is it possible or probable that a kinked line would contribute to compressor drag or does my problem probably lie in the fact that the car is a bridgeport?
Problem: My AC condenser coil has a line that is very kinked. Line got kinked when vertical mounting the condenser during a front mount intercooler install. It is the goes directy from the compressor to the condenser.
When the AC comes on now, the engine is VERY labored. Is it likely that this kinked line is contributing to this?
Compunding the problem is my car is a half bridgeport on a PFC with no idle control. The car will stall and die at less than 1600 RPM idle.
I have to idle the car up to around 2500RPM to compensate for when the compressor comes on and drags it down to 1600 RPM. 2500 RPM is just tooooo high an idle for when the AC is off.
Again, is it possible or probable that a kinked line would contribute to compressor drag or does my problem probably lie in the fact that the car is a bridgeport?
08-30-11 | 03:42 PM
#64
I'll get a pic. It looks pretty bad. I'm on the lookout for another FD condenser or maybe I can get a good bend on it if I pull the radiator.
Basically, my question isn't if a sharp bend affects cooling - but if the bend could physically bog down the compressor?
Basically, my question isn't if a sharp bend affects cooling - but if the bend could physically bog down the compressor?
08-30-11 | 04:12 PM
#65
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 231
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From: Calgary, Alberta
What do you see for operating high/low pressures once the system is fully charged with this refrigerant?
Also, how bad would it be if there was ~1-2oz of mineral oil in the system but the rest was ester? I have been playing around with red tek trying to get cold air and am getting nowhere. They say red tek puts up with the mineral oil so I left some of it in there when I charged the system.
Also, how bad would it be if there was ~1-2oz of mineral oil in the system but the rest was ester? I have been playing around with red tek trying to get cold air and am getting nowhere. They say red tek puts up with the mineral oil so I left some of it in there when I charged the system.
08-30-11 | 06:39 PM
#67
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From: And the horse he rode in on...
What do you see for operating high/low pressures once the system is fully charged with this refrigerant?
Also, how bad would it be if there was ~1-2oz of mineral oil in the system but the rest was ester? I have been playing around with red tek trying to get cold air and am getting nowhere. They say red tek puts up with the mineral oil so I left some of it in there when I charged the system.
Also, how bad would it be if there was ~1-2oz of mineral oil in the system but the rest was ester? I have been playing around with red tek trying to get cold air and am getting nowhere. They say red tek puts up with the mineral oil so I left some of it in there when I charged the system.
It's *complicated*. This is why now days, most professionals charge automobiles by weight. If the system is partially full, they recover the remaining refrigerant and recharge by weight.
Should not be too much problem. Just don't leave a couple of oz of mineral, then add the full ester 6 oz and expect the cooling to be totally up to snuff. Too much total oil will displace refrigerant capacity. You can get most of the oil out of the system at this point by replacing the receiver-drier. The mineral oil will tend to collect in that canister and will not move around in the system containing R152a (or 134a either.
The word of the day is miscible. That's Miscible.
Last edited by jackhild59; 10-12-17 at 05:47 PM.
08-30-11 | 09:52 PM
#69
08-30-11 | 09:55 PM
#70
There is no such thing as typical operating pressures in A/C, especially MVAC. This is caused by misunderstanding the physics involved. See the temperature pressure chart posted on an earlier page? Pressure on both the high and low side is totally dependent on the temperatures in the system (and vice versa) and is also influenced by the air temperatures outside and inside.
It's *complicated*. This is why now days, most professionals charge automobiles by weight. If the system is partially full, they recover the remaining refrigerant and recharge by weight.
Should not be too much problem. Just don't leave a couple of oz of mineral, then add the full ester 6 oz and expect the cooling to be totally up to snuff. Too much total oil will displace refrigerant capacity. You can get most of the oil out of the system at this point by replacing the receiver-drier. The mineral oil will tend to collect in that canister and will not move around in the system containing R152a (or 134a either.
The word of the day is miscible. That's Miscible.
It's *complicated*. This is why now days, most professionals charge automobiles by weight. If the system is partially full, they recover the remaining refrigerant and recharge by weight.
Should not be too much problem. Just don't leave a couple of oz of mineral, then add the full ester 6 oz and expect the cooling to be totally up to snuff. Too much total oil will displace refrigerant capacity. You can get most of the oil out of the system at this point by replacing the receiver-drier. The mineral oil will tend to collect in that canister and will not move around in the system containing R152a (or 134a either.
The word of the day is miscible. That's Miscible.
I think he dumped the oil out of the compressor, got a new dryer and poured a little bit in there... maybe he'll chime in again.
08-30-11 | 11:43 PM
#72
Full Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 231
Likes: 1
From: Calgary, Alberta
There is no such thing as typical operating pressures in A/C, especially MVAC. This is caused by misunderstanding the physics involved. See the temperature pressure chart posted on an earlier page? Pressure on both the high and low side is totally dependent on the temperatures in the system (and vice versa) and is also influenced by the air temperatures outside and inside.
It's *complicated*. This is why now days, most professionals charge automobiles by weight. If the system is partially full, they recover the remaining refrigerant and recharge by weight.
Should not be too much problem. Just don't leave a couple of oz of mineral, then add the full ester 6 oz and expect the cooling to be totally up to snuff. Too much total oil will displace refrigerant capacity. You can get most of the oil out of the system at this point by replacing the receiver-drier. The mineral oil will tend to collect in that canister and will not move around in the system containing R152a (or 134a either.
The word of the day is miscible. That's Miscible.
It's *complicated*. This is why now days, most professionals charge automobiles by weight. If the system is partially full, they recover the remaining refrigerant and recharge by weight.
Should not be too much problem. Just don't leave a couple of oz of mineral, then add the full ester 6 oz and expect the cooling to be totally up to snuff. Too much total oil will displace refrigerant capacity. You can get most of the oil out of the system at this point by replacing the receiver-drier. The mineral oil will tend to collect in that canister and will not move around in the system containing R152a (or 134a either.
The word of the day is miscible. That's Miscible.
08-31-11 | 10:17 AM
#74
08-31-11 | 10:59 AM
#75
Freeze12 works. Period. Con is that Freeze12 is not locally available. What do you do if you are out and need a can? Log onto Ebay and wait! 
HotShot, ES12, ES12a etc. are all HC blends. That means Hydrocarbon. Blends of Propane and Butane. They burn.
They explode. They are against the law!
EPA has a specific ruling against 'Sham Conversions' that are used as a justification to bypass the rules regarding HC refrigerant. Who cares? Ok, if that doesn't deter you, how bout this. They don't work worth a crap. Don't post up from Ontario, or Minnesota and tell me how great the HC blends are. They don't work well in high temperature high humidity areas. I have tried them in FC's and other cars that didn't work well with R134a.
Is this just my opinion? Yes it is, but I have invested lot's of time trying to make HC's work in an FC.
HC's Suck.
HotShot, ES12, ES12a etc. are all HC blends. That means Hydrocarbon. Blends of Propane and Butane. They burn.
They explode. They are against the law! EPA has a specific ruling against 'Sham Conversions' that are used as a justification to bypass the rules regarding HC refrigerant. Who cares? Ok, if that doesn't deter you, how bout this. They don't work worth a crap. Don't post up from Ontario, or Minnesota and tell me how great the HC blends are. They don't work well in high temperature high humidity areas. I have tried them in FC's and other cars that didn't work well with R134a.Is this just my opinion? Yes it is, but I have invested lot's of time trying to make HC's work in an FC.
HC's Suck.
http://www.autorefrigerants.us/ESMSDS.htm
http://www.refrigerants.com/msds/r134a.pdf
As for the legality, do you supposed that could be due to Dupont cornering the market on R134 and having the money to protect it? There was a study done to see just what would happen if the entire contents of your AC suddenly leaked into your compartment while smoking with the HC...nothing happened.
http://futeck.com/BWTRefridgerant.htm
Of course that could be biased as they are selling the stuff but it does bring up good points.
I live in Miami 95f with 85% humidity, my AC works great even on 1 I can feel it and it is cold, when cruising the highway I won't put it higher than 3 and even then my fingers will become numb if it is on to long. I am going to try the industrial stuff soon but right now I don't want to mess with it. I am going to take the R134 out of my Mustang and put the industrial in that one also because on a hot day the 134 just does not cut it.
Today is a cold day for us
86f
72% humidity
feels like 100f
This is in an FD, I have no experience with the FC in this area.
Another good thing with the ES12a regular stuff is you don't need to pull vacuum, for those without the tools it is easily done by yourself.
Edit: wanted to make a comment about the last part I bolded, I get temperatures of around 40f from my vents. When I first put it in I was getting mid 50's, after it settled I was hitting low 40s.