um no you're the one that sound like you havent had a standalone for very long. mine (e6k) has been up and running for more than a year

mike

 

Any ecu install can be hacked into a car in a short period of time, thats more of a question with how badly are you willing to butcher your car to get it running sooner than later? Then one day have it not want to start and waste hours guessing whats wrong til you discover the shoddy crimps you hacked together, or worse yet, half-assed soldering on corroded wires that simply do not want to recieve any solder without major cleaning, have decided to fail on you...

but I guess it's worth it to be able to tell people you did it so fast it must be good. I don't see how any of this reflects on the microtechs reliability, quality, or ease of installation & use.

Unless you can provide factual evidence that the microtech somehow manages to do speed/density with the same correction capabilities as the other ecus, with less sensor inputs... you cannot say it is easier to install. As far as I can tell, it's just another speed/density programmable ecu, you still have IAT, TPS, MAP, trigger, water temp and stock ignition to interface with, therefore equivalent number of wires to connect.

I'm not saying the microtech sucks, but you are always bringing up moot points in attempts to imply it is better than the others... so far the only advantage I have seen is price, but it also seems like you get what you pay for. The haltechs generally come with more, so one should expect to pay more. There surely is not a significant difference as far as installation goes, unless you WANT there to be, at least you have that option with the haltechs. The option to use the additional features and inputs/outputs, which definitely will complicate the installation, but thats purely voluntary.

 

For a realistic quality install time, we (Myself, Brandon and Ray) did my car, very carfully soldered(with a butane soldering iron)/shrinkwrapped/wireloomed connections in about 6hrs. This was not 6hrs of intense work either, but rather one of joking and other BSing in general. We could have been done HOURS sooner, but I wasn't trying to set any records and it was also the first time any of us had installed a Microtech. I have had a hand in installing both Haltechs and I have done the Microtech on my own car, and the Microtech was much simpler, adn started and ran the car much smoother on the base maps.


As far as sensor inputs every speed density system is going to need the same one wether it be a Haltech, Migrotech or a Motec. The Microtech saves you time in that you can retain the use of the stock sensors. This brings up another bother I have, lots of Haltech people like to argue that the stock sensors are a problem, and will in the same breath knock good old GM cars, funny where do they think AC Delco sensors come from? I do not feel the sensors will be a big deal, and you could always replace them with new Mazda units later.

Pengarufoo, you seem to be very opinionated, I am just wondering what background do you have in EMS instillation and tuning? Just so we know what company we are in.

Daniel
"I drove my car to work 18hrs after I installed my Microtech"

 

Why are you guys knocking the microtech. The fact that they are giving away one for FREE is nice enough. They give you guys a realistic challenge with a great offer and you just complain about it. Please, someone does a favor for you, and some of you just totally knock it.

The point is, this is a great deal/challenge, and I'm sure someones up to it. No need to hate on stuff that is being GIVEN AWAY. Come on.

 

not7 yet felt the need to bag on the haltech first, we're responding.. i agree that its cool he's doing this contest, but i dont see a need to call everyone with a non microtech inferior.

mike

 

anyone have a picture of the unit and hand controller or even the dash display?

 

http://devils.eng.fsu.edu/~bmatt/mtech/

and

http://www.microtechefi.com

Brandon
BR7 Racing

 

FYI there's a *bit* of difference between something given away, and something that you have to buy, and then getting your money refunded. I myself, don't have the extra $600 around to buy a MT right now, even if I knew I was going to get a refund.

 

My point is you don't have to replace the stock sensors with the haltech either, it's just the preferred way. People argue the microtech is easier to install because you don't have to install new sensors for everything. If you don't want to, you don't have to with the haltech either. It's the same situation.


I only have experience with my own car which is with the E6K. My background is computing, system administration and programming, with some electronics. I am still learning about these subjects as are most of you. What I do know is that microtech or haltech you're going to be soldering very similar quantities of connections, which forms the bulk of the installation process... so how not7yet can make silly claims like '2 hour installation of microtech do that with a haltech' is pretty lame marketoid b.s.

As for the other guy that asked why we're knocking the microtech, I'm not knocking the microtech. I never said it sucks, I'm simply trying to understand why the microtech sellers/supporters tout these moot points like not needing new sensors as 'features' or 'advantages' for the microtech. You CAN purchase a haltech with no connector kit or sensors, if thats what you want, and save some cash doing so.

 

liquid anarchy: then why are you posting in this thread anyways?

 

As far as Haltech vs Microtech it all comes down to what is best for you. The haltech has a few more outputs and a little more resolution that I feel is just plain not needed in a street car, the amount of inputs/outputs the Microtech has is fine for me and runs my car awesome. The Microtech turned out to be a better computer for me, after dealing with 3 Haltechs I was done with it and I wanted to try something different. Also, yes it is possible to get a haltech configured to run with the stock sensors, but Haltechs not configured for the Delco sensors are few and far between, definatly not a common item. If you want my good solid reasoning I would reccommend the Microtech over the E6k to someone looking now would be this:

Price:
I feel it is a better VALUE, its cheaper and gets the job done, if I need to turn on an electric fan I will go to autozone and get a Mr Gasket thermo switch I don't need that extra output bad enough to pay the $300 for the E6K.

Software:
Namley datalogging ability, comma delimited logging with no internal option for graphing or replaying is not good, plus the Microtech software will work on newer laptops with Windows 2000/XP and laptops with no serial ports with a USB -> serial converter.

Wiring Loom:
I think the Microtech harness was better labeled. layed out and even seemed to be of better quality than the Haltech harness.

Tuning Options:
Handset, Laptop, Dash...plus gadgets are cool!

Rough 2d tuning:
Much easier to tune 1 map on the street than it is to try to mess with the 3d mode, and if anyone wants to say that you can't get the car running pretty smooth in 2d mode, I will happily take them for a ride. And after you get it close switch the 3d mode on a dyno and get it spot on!

As far as the Microtech going in with a quality install in 2hrs, I think I could do it now since I have done one, and I could definaly have my car running smoother and better than a comparable car with a Haltech sooner, hell I haven't even touched the 3d capabilty of my LT8 and its already nicer than the stock ECU. When it comes down to it one EMS isn't going to make more power than another, so the difference is in drivability. This is where more options/resolution can be wonderful BUT it can also be very very bad. Could a professional tuner get a E6K to have better transient throttle and RPM habits than LT8, I am sure he could, but can Joe FCOwner tuning on the street or with only a few hours on the dyno? Most likley not, there is to much resolution to be played with. Simplicity is a WONDERFUL thing, until the Microtech I was actually PRAYING to find an VPC for my FC from Japan because removal of the airflow meter and tuning with 3 ***** can't be beat especially when it works like a champ!

The Microtech will also make the 20B swap alot more realistic for people. For less than a new E6K you can be into an LTX12 and have the ability to properly control the 3 rotor, no more $2000 EMS needed and it can have a wideband input. The LTX12 obvisouly offers lots more benefits and is still under the cost of a NEW E6K.

Just to make this fair, there are definatly some things I think could be made better with the Microtech and some hangups that could hurt a more expierienced tuner.

THere are alot of percentages that effect the entire fuel curve in the software such as MixTRIM and %stage, they also have similar settings for timing. These settings effect injector pulsewidth/timing over a WIDE range of load points. For a newer tuner or someone tuning their own car or someone familiar with the Microtech this is a non issue (in fact its great, got 4x720's, no problem load the base map and mixtrim it down -20% car runs awesome) they know to check it but for an expierienced tuner who might not be to familiar with the Microtech software they not realize what is going on and try to recompensate for this. This can ofcourse be turned off and the EMS tuned without it but it COULD create a problem.

Daniel Rogers
I <heart> Microtech

 

Because I'm god, and I can.

Actually, I'm dicking around w/ paying the money for the LT-8 if noone wins it by the time I get everything done. I've wanted an MT for a while, but couldn't justify the cost, being a full-time college student. After talking to friends, you can get a used MT-8 (old model, but still all an N/A car needs) for a substancially lesser cost; plus you're likely to get one w/ all the RX-7 connectors already done (truely plug'n'play). But w/ this post, I'm wondering how it will all work out.

My car won't be ready for months, and I'm hesitant to believe that a Microtech will make a HUGE difference as compared to a piggy-back (I mean more than 2 tenths) but, that's yet to be seen.

Reguardless; don't count me out of this, or the 1st 13-second N/A anytime soon. Maybe I'm just trying to lower moral so noone will attempt it... who knows... god works in mysterious ways.

 

you dont need a haltech "configured" for anything, the stock sensors are the same as the delco ones, electrically speaking.

mike

 

The ECU must be calibrated, Mike. So it knows what resistance level corresponds to which temperature.



Brandon

 

sorry, i'm using my off the self e6k with the stock mazda sensors and the numbers agree.

mike

 

Actually, the ITS race cars have proven a substantial power increase with a stand alone unit VS piggyback.

The SCCA is now allowing open electronics for the race cars and from what I hear, people who know how to tune a Wolf and a Haltech are seeing about a 13% increase in peak power with MUCH better HP and torque curves. They were able to pick up gobs of torque throughout the powerband.

 

Now, the real question is this: how much of that is AFM elimination? Do you know, Carl? That's what I was hoping to quantify once I get an N/A car on a dyno.

Brandon
BR7 Racing

 

boy the dash and hand units look pretty hand built...to bad they are not more impressive for the money

Looks like you'd be better off building a laptop in:

 

Not too sure. Would need to see before and after dyno charts overlaping one another. But I am sure that the top end power mainly comes from the AFM removal, but the tuning is probably where the torque comes from.

 

You know, that's exactly what I thought before I held one in my hand.

The buttons on the hand controller could be a little better, and the stick-on CF is cheesy, but the units are all suprisingly well-built. They're stamped metal (feels like steel), and not flimsy at all. The MT hand controller feels much more durable than the PFC Commander. There's no way to convince you without you having held one, except to ask you to take my word, but believe me - they're not cheap-feeling at all.

Brandon
BR7 Racing

 

I haven't purchased my Microtech yet, but I can tell you my experience with the Haltech E6K Wiring harness quality of construction: I WAS NOT IMPRESSED! Cold solder globs everywhere (although it was covered in NICE heat shrink).

The HALTECH method of constructing branches was very poor IMHO; stripping 1" of wire; wrapping another wire around it and COLD-SOLDERING, then covering it with heat shrink is not a proper branch construction method.
There is a MAJOR Haltech tuner in the NE who also shares the same opinion of haltechs "harness".


BTW: If my microtech harness is the same way I will bitch and moan and then I will correct it.

 

The Microtech Harness is not like that at all. I fell in love with the Microtech harness when I recieved it first, then the software very shortly thereafter.

Daniel

 

But have you actually LOOKED at how the Harness is constructed?

 

sounds like a challenge, and not an easy one at that. Of course that is my goal but I am not sure if the 13's are possible in street form. Carbon fiber everything!

 

SDS claims a 10% increase in horespower just from deletion of the air flow meter on a stock port engine. After proper tuning a few more percent is definitely going to be added. If you had a 200 hp car and could gain 20+ horsepower for $700, it would be the cheapest, most effective money you ever spent.