Brakes!!
10-19-04, 06:18 PM
#1
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Brakes!!
Hi All,
I think this is proberly the wrong section to put this in but i want to ask the Second gen owners so?
I am after uprating my brakes, my Turbo2 has stood for a few years and i've recently put it back on the road.
I have found the Master cylinder and one of the rear Calipers are leaking fluid and the brakes are realy poor.
I will replace the master Cylinder but is there any replacements that would work better on my car (such as a fd master for example?).
Next is the Caliper, would you recomend i get another second hand one or overhaul it myself? also would i need to do this in pairs (ie both sides)
Then i am going to replace the full set of Rotors and Pads, i was thinking of fitting uprated ones but have no idea which ones suit a powerfull T2?
Your advice would be most helpfull.
Cheers
Chris
I think this is proberly the wrong section to put this in but i want to ask the Second gen owners so?
I am after uprating my brakes, my Turbo2 has stood for a few years and i've recently put it back on the road.
I have found the Master cylinder and one of the rear Calipers are leaking fluid and the brakes are realy poor.
I will replace the master Cylinder but is there any replacements that would work better on my car (such as a fd master for example?).
Next is the Caliper, would you recomend i get another second hand one or overhaul it myself? also would i need to do this in pairs (ie both sides)
Then i am going to replace the full set of Rotors and Pads, i was thinking of fitting uprated ones but have no idea which ones suit a powerfull T2?
Your advice would be most helpfull.
Cheers
Chris
10-19-04, 06:54 PM
#2
Stock master and calipers will work fine. Pads, rotors and tires will make the most difference.
If your car has sat that long, I would replace the master and all 4 calipers. If you do calipers in pairs, you'll probably be doing the other pair soon.
If you replace those 5 parts, I would go one more step and change to the DOT 5 silicone brake fluid. You will need to blow out your brake lines before installing the new components, the hook everything up and start bleeding, the new and old fluids are not compatable with each other.
3 reasons for the DOT 5
1. It's not hydroscopic. Look it up
2. DOT 5 has a higher boiling point, less fade with heavy use.
3. Brake fluid eats paint. Every 7 I ahve owned, someone has spilled brake fluid in the
engine bay, ruining the paint and promoting rust in a place that is a pita to repair.
If you can afford to replace all of the brake components at once, i.e. master, calipers, hoses, rotors and pads, you will have a new brake system that will perform as well or better than new.
If you're doing the work yourself, and shop wisely, this can be done for $5-700 and you won't have to worry about your brakes for many many miles. Then you can concentrate on the other upgrades.
The same goes for the clutch hydraulics.
If your car has sat that long, I would replace the master and all 4 calipers. If you do calipers in pairs, you'll probably be doing the other pair soon.
If you replace those 5 parts, I would go one more step and change to the DOT 5 silicone brake fluid. You will need to blow out your brake lines before installing the new components, the hook everything up and start bleeding, the new and old fluids are not compatable with each other.
3 reasons for the DOT 5
1. It's not hydroscopic. Look it up
2. DOT 5 has a higher boiling point, less fade with heavy use.
3. Brake fluid eats paint. Every 7 I ahve owned, someone has spilled brake fluid in the
engine bay, ruining the paint and promoting rust in a place that is a pita to repair.
If you can afford to replace all of the brake components at once, i.e. master, calipers, hoses, rotors and pads, you will have a new brake system that will perform as well or better than new.
If you're doing the work yourself, and shop wisely, this can be done for $5-700 and you won't have to worry about your brakes for many many miles. Then you can concentrate on the other upgrades.
The same goes for the clutch hydraulics.
10-20-04, 01:39 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by trochoid
Stock master and calipers will work fine. Pads, rotors and tires will make the most difference.
If your car has sat that long, I would replace the master and all 4 calipers. If you do calipers in pairs, you'll probably be doing the other pair soon.
If you replace those 5 parts, I would go one more step and change to the DOT 5 silicone brake fluid. You will need to blow out your brake lines before installing the new components, the hook everything up and start bleeding, the new and old fluids are not compatable with each other.
3 reasons for the DOT 5
1. It's not hydroscopic. Look it up
2. DOT 5 has a higher boiling point, less fade with heavy use.
3. Brake fluid eats paint. Every 7 I ahve owned, someone has spilled brake fluid in the
engine bay, ruining the paint and promoting rust in a place that is a pita to repair.
If you can afford to replace all of the brake components at once, i.e. master, calipers, hoses, rotors and pads, you will have a new brake system that will perform as well or better than new.
If you're doing the work yourself, and shop wisely, this can be done for $5-700 and you won't have to worry about your brakes for many many miles. Then you can concentrate on the other upgrades.
The same goes for the clutch hydraulics.
If your car has sat that long, I would replace the master and all 4 calipers. If you do calipers in pairs, you'll probably be doing the other pair soon.
If you replace those 5 parts, I would go one more step and change to the DOT 5 silicone brake fluid. You will need to blow out your brake lines before installing the new components, the hook everything up and start bleeding, the new and old fluids are not compatable with each other.
3 reasons for the DOT 5
1. It's not hydroscopic. Look it up
2. DOT 5 has a higher boiling point, less fade with heavy use.
3. Brake fluid eats paint. Every 7 I ahve owned, someone has spilled brake fluid in the
engine bay, ruining the paint and promoting rust in a place that is a pita to repair.
If you can afford to replace all of the brake components at once, i.e. master, calipers, hoses, rotors and pads, you will have a new brake system that will perform as well or better than new.
If you're doing the work yourself, and shop wisely, this can be done for $5-700 and you won't have to worry about your brakes for many many miles. Then you can concentrate on the other upgrades.
The same goes for the clutch hydraulics.
DOT 5 doesn't eat paint??!
Is it possible to clear a system of its' current brake fluid and replace it with DOT 5? I'm going to be putting my master cyl from my old car onto a new shell, so I'll end up bleeding all the lines out anyway... good time to be replacing it with DOT 5 if I can do it without having to buy a new master cyl.
--Gary
10-20-04, 03:23 PM
#5
I kept my old master when I did the switch on my 1st gen. Did re-bleed a couple of days later. Everything is working fine.
Picked up the DOT 5 idea from some show I was watching that suggested for preserving paint on show cars and it also handles storage well for cars that aren't diven often.
It is pricey, the stuff I bought was $30/qt. Can be found cheaper.
Picked up the DOT 5 idea from some show I was watching that suggested for preserving paint on show cars and it also handles storage well for cars that aren't diven often.
It is pricey, the stuff I bought was $30/qt. Can be found cheaper.
10-20-04, 06:35 PM
#7
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First off, DOT 5 is silicon fluid.
DOT 5 is not good stuff. Theres a number of reasons outlined here http://www.xs11.com/tips/maintenance/maint1.shtml
It is true that it does not eat pain and absorb water. But, some rubber in our brake systems might not be compatible with DOT 5, and not being able to absorb water is not nessasarly a good thing. The reason for that is because water is going is always going to get in the system since its open to air and because condenstation happens. Where a normal brake fluid would absorb that water, a Silicon fluid (DOT 5) does not, and the water sinks to the lowest point on the system... usually your caliper which is going to cause your caliper pistons to rust, all the water gathering at one spot is also a problem since it makes a huge bubble when it turns to steam causing your brakes dramatically disappear. Normal brake fulids have rust inhibitors in them so this isnt really a problem untill after a long time. and when the water starts to turn to steam in normal fluid, it doesnt form that huge bubble, that way are brakes just dont go away... we get a spungy pedal insted.
Also, silicon fluid does not mix with normal fluid and it sticks to the drit thats already in the system, making a big globy mess. So if your going to use DOT 5, you have to 1) totaly flush your brake system of all dirt and normal brake fluid. 2) make sure theres going to be no reactions between the rubbers and plastics in the system. and 3) bleed often since water that gets into the system gathers at the lowest point of the system causing rust and horrid performance.
DOT 5 is not good stuff. Theres a number of reasons outlined here http://www.xs11.com/tips/maintenance/maint1.shtml
It is true that it does not eat pain and absorb water. But, some rubber in our brake systems might not be compatible with DOT 5, and not being able to absorb water is not nessasarly a good thing. The reason for that is because water is going is always going to get in the system since its open to air and because condenstation happens. Where a normal brake fluid would absorb that water, a Silicon fluid (DOT 5) does not, and the water sinks to the lowest point on the system... usually your caliper which is going to cause your caliper pistons to rust, all the water gathering at one spot is also a problem since it makes a huge bubble when it turns to steam causing your brakes dramatically disappear. Normal brake fulids have rust inhibitors in them so this isnt really a problem untill after a long time. and when the water starts to turn to steam in normal fluid, it doesnt form that huge bubble, that way are brakes just dont go away... we get a spungy pedal insted.
Also, silicon fluid does not mix with normal fluid and it sticks to the drit thats already in the system, making a big globy mess. So if your going to use DOT 5, you have to 1) totaly flush your brake system of all dirt and normal brake fluid. 2) make sure theres going to be no reactions between the rubbers and plastics in the system. and 3) bleed often since water that gets into the system gathers at the lowest point of the system causing rust and horrid performance.
Last edited by OC_; 10-20-04 at 06:38 PM.
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10-20-04, 07:26 PM
#8
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makes it sound like a racing fluid that wouldn't be suitable for use in a steet car.
Originally Posted by OC_
First off, DOT 5 is silicon fluid.
DOT 5 is not good stuff. Theres a number of reasons outlined here http://www.xs11.com/tips/maintenance/maint1.shtml
It is true that it does not eat pain and absorb water. But, some rubber in our brake systems might not be compatible with DOT 5, and not being able to absorb water is not nessasarly a good thing. The reason for that is because water is going is always going to get in the system since its open to air and because condenstation happens. Where a normal brake fluid would absorb that water, a Silicon fluid (DOT 5) does not, and the water sinks to the lowest point on the system... usually your caliper which is going to cause your caliper pistons to rust, all the water gathering at one spot is also a problem since it makes a huge bubble when it turns to steam causing your brakes dramatically disappear. Normal brake fulids have rust inhibitors in them so this isnt really a problem untill after a long time. and when the water starts to turn to steam in normal fluid, it doesnt form that huge bubble, that way are brakes just dont go away... we get a spungy pedal insted.
Also, silicon fluid does not mix with normal fluid and it sticks to the drit thats already in the system, making a big globy mess. So if your going to use DOT 5, you have to 1) totaly flush your brake system of all dirt and normal brake fluid. 2) make sure theres going to be no reactions between the rubbers and plastics in the system. and 3) bleed often since water that gets into the system gathers at the lowest point of the system causing rust and horrid performance.
DOT 5 is not good stuff. Theres a number of reasons outlined here http://www.xs11.com/tips/maintenance/maint1.shtml
It is true that it does not eat pain and absorb water. But, some rubber in our brake systems might not be compatible with DOT 5, and not being able to absorb water is not nessasarly a good thing. The reason for that is because water is going is always going to get in the system since its open to air and because condenstation happens. Where a normal brake fluid would absorb that water, a Silicon fluid (DOT 5) does not, and the water sinks to the lowest point on the system... usually your caliper which is going to cause your caliper pistons to rust, all the water gathering at one spot is also a problem since it makes a huge bubble when it turns to steam causing your brakes dramatically disappear. Normal brake fulids have rust inhibitors in them so this isnt really a problem untill after a long time. and when the water starts to turn to steam in normal fluid, it doesnt form that huge bubble, that way are brakes just dont go away... we get a spungy pedal insted.
Also, silicon fluid does not mix with normal fluid and it sticks to the drit thats already in the system, making a big globy mess. So if your going to use DOT 5, you have to 1) totaly flush your brake system of all dirt and normal brake fluid. 2) make sure theres going to be no reactions between the rubbers and plastics in the system. and 3) bleed often since water that gets into the system gathers at the lowest point of the system causing rust and horrid performance.
10-21-04, 12:13 PM
#9
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You can also brake calipers at any parts store, atleast you can in North America...
As for using "uprated" brake stuff, Hawk HPS pads are good ones to use. As for rotors, don't bother, you will not stop sooner. If you plan on using the car from track events, etc. use Ford spec DOT 3 fluid. You have to change it more often, but it's got a very high dry boiling point.
Regarding master cylinders, I've heard of people using ones from 929s to get better modulation feel, but I don't really know any details on that.
As for using "uprated" brake stuff, Hawk HPS pads are good ones to use. As for rotors, don't bother, you will not stop sooner. If you plan on using the car from track events, etc. use Ford spec DOT 3 fluid. You have to change it more often, but it's got a very high dry boiling point.
Regarding master cylinders, I've heard of people using ones from 929s to get better modulation feel, but I don't really know any details on that.
10-21-04, 12:26 PM
#10
Ho's and Cadillac Doors
I put in a new master cylinder, new SS lines, Hawk pads, and Brembo slotted/drilled rotors (despite what some say). The car stops like freakin' Jesus. Rather than not getting any brake response until the pedal was halfway down, I get almost instant response, and very stiff pedal. I haven't measured any stopping distances yet, but it's definitely better than stock.
10-21-04, 03:33 PM
#11
Originally Posted by bingoboy
makes it sound like a racing fluid that wouldn't be suitable for use in a steet car.
There are fluids that are suitable for street and track applications though, Motul 600 is one of them.
10-21-04, 03:46 PM
#12
S4 now S6 soon...
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I just got done doing the whole brake upgrade myself, almost the same situation as you only my master cylinder is fine. I replaced my crappy rear calipers and gave my fronts a good looking at, those things are in tip to shape, all the visable seals are in great shape no cracking, nothing this with 186k on them. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Use the money you'll save to buy some Hawk HPS pads (awesome pads, best I've ever used!) and either some brembo blanks, or maybe some powerslots. I didn't know cars could stop this well, most importantly it will do it over and over again! Oh yeah, I would also suggest SS brake lines, pound for pound the best brake mod ever, and a synthetic fluid like Superblue.
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