Benefits Of Haltech On Stock Setup
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Benefits Of Haltech On Stock Setup
Sooner or later I will upgrade to a stage IV BNR Turbo, right now I have exhaust, Banzai TID, and HKS SSQV. My question is, with the right tuning, what are the benefits of a haltech if I have not yet upgraded my injectors or pump.
#2
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You get to ditch the AFM. I posted in your other thread as well. Full control over AF ratios and you can get rid of fuel cut and other things. I'm sure there are alot more but those are the main ones I could think of.
#4
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Stock injectors and pump makes no difference. You still get the benefit of being able to totally retune the fuel and ignition curves. The stock curves are very conservative, and allow a lot of scope for safe improvement. The ability to change (or turn off) the overboost the fuel cut also greatly increases potential, although with a stock fuel system you shouldn't be boosting over 9psi anyway. Removal of the AFM is a relatively minor bonus.
All EFI systems cut fuel on decel. It saves gas, and there's no reason not to do it.
All EFI systems cut fuel on decel. It saves gas, and there's no reason not to do it.
#5
I think you should treat the BNR Stage IV like a full aftermarket turbo as far as what fuel/ECU support it requires and the care in the set-up.
When I put on my Stage IV I had everything a large aftermarket turbo would have- Haltech, 720cc primary inj, 1600 2ndaries w/ parallel fuel system w/ aeromotive RRFPR and Walbro 255 LPHr fuel pump.
First time I boosted I hit over 20psi before 3,500rpm. Luckily the Pop off valve worked to limit boost and it was set very rich so no harm.
But, once I had boost creep almost fixed (60mm external wastegate) the turbo still flowed so much the Walbro couldn't support the required fuel even w/ the injectors maxed out on duty cycle (400RWHP single conv. 3rd gens use this pump- the inj. are good for over 600rwhp WTF).
I cracked the engine rear end plate and now have to build a better fuel system (walbro zero pressure to reservoir, big inline pump under pressure from reservoir to fuel). rails) to support the turbo.
So be careful, the Stage IV has a lot of potential. I would restrict your intake and exhaust initially no matter what your set-up and carefully remove restrictions as you test to see that you have no boost creep and plenty of fuel available (checking w/ wideband and calculating inj. duty cycle).
I found out this turbo is no joke...
When I put on my Stage IV I had everything a large aftermarket turbo would have- Haltech, 720cc primary inj, 1600 2ndaries w/ parallel fuel system w/ aeromotive RRFPR and Walbro 255 LPHr fuel pump.
First time I boosted I hit over 20psi before 3,500rpm. Luckily the Pop off valve worked to limit boost and it was set very rich so no harm.
But, once I had boost creep almost fixed (60mm external wastegate) the turbo still flowed so much the Walbro couldn't support the required fuel even w/ the injectors maxed out on duty cycle (400RWHP single conv. 3rd gens use this pump- the inj. are good for over 600rwhp WTF).
I cracked the engine rear end plate and now have to build a better fuel system (walbro zero pressure to reservoir, big inline pump under pressure from reservoir to fuel). rails) to support the turbo.
So be careful, the Stage IV has a lot of potential. I would restrict your intake and exhaust initially no matter what your set-up and carefully remove restrictions as you test to see that you have no boost creep and plenty of fuel available (checking w/ wideband and calculating inj. duty cycle).
I found out this turbo is no joke...
#6
Question: does the haltech fuel cut on decel like the stock? Is this how people normaly set it up, or not worry about it?
Haltech can be switched between fuel cut on decel or not. If one uses premix (and no cat) the fuel on decel is used- or if one setting up for anti-lag or just plain likes the throttle lift fireballs.
Removal of the AFM is a relatively minor bonus.
In overall peak HP gains on a small(ish) turbo I agree.
However, I think the removal of the AFM should make a good deal of improvement in turbo boost response. Any restriction before the turbo really hurts response. You will hear people speak of the results of decreasing restriction before the turbo in draw through carb Vs blow through carb discussions, or people on this forum discussing the gains in response from a simple TID mod, or most professional racers using nothing but a velocity stack on the turbo inlet (despite the advantages of sealed CAI system), and even in OEM trubo diesel applications where whole new compressor housing types (shrouded) are designed so a larger turbo inlet pipe can be used to boost response.
Some Japanese tuners simply move the AFM to after the turbo compressor outlet when using stock ECU and piggy backs...
Haltech can be switched between fuel cut on decel or not. If one uses premix (and no cat) the fuel on decel is used- or if one setting up for anti-lag or just plain likes the throttle lift fireballs.
Removal of the AFM is a relatively minor bonus.
In overall peak HP gains on a small(ish) turbo I agree.
However, I think the removal of the AFM should make a good deal of improvement in turbo boost response. Any restriction before the turbo really hurts response. You will hear people speak of the results of decreasing restriction before the turbo in draw through carb Vs blow through carb discussions, or people on this forum discussing the gains in response from a simple TID mod, or most professional racers using nothing but a velocity stack on the turbo inlet (despite the advantages of sealed CAI system), and even in OEM trubo diesel applications where whole new compressor housing types (shrouded) are designed so a larger turbo inlet pipe can be used to boost response.
Some Japanese tuners simply move the AFM to after the turbo compressor outlet when using stock ECU and piggy backs...
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#8
I wish I was driving!
Originally posted by BLUE TII
When I put on my Stage IV I had everything a large aftermarket turbo would have- Haltech, 720cc primary inj, 1600 2ndaries w/ parallel fuel system w/ aeromotive RRFPR and Walbro 255 LPHr fuel pump.
When I put on my Stage IV I had everything a large aftermarket turbo would have- Haltech, 720cc primary inj, 1600 2ndaries w/ parallel fuel system w/ aeromotive RRFPR and Walbro 255 LPHr fuel pump.
EDIT: Aeromotive doesn;t make any RRFPR's for EFI; I checked.
Are you aware that rising rate means that the rate in which fuel pressure increase with reference to boost actually rises (goes higher than 1:1)?
Edit: After a search, I see that you are using The Aeromotive 6-AN 13109 FPR, which has a non-adjustable boost-reference of 1:1. All FPR's have this reference. A RRFPR is adjustable for how much it references with respect to boost; some of the RRFPR's used with superchargers are adjustable up to 12:1 (giving rail pressures of over 150 lbs at 10 psi of boost).
You wouldn't want to tune via an FPR... pump flow is sevrely dampened at those rail pressures. RRFPR's are the poor man's EMS.
Last edited by scathcart; 04-02-04 at 02:13 AM.
#10
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Originally posted by BLUE TII
If one uses premix (and no cat) the fuel on decel is used- or if one setting up for anti-lag or just plain likes the throttle lift fireballs.
If one uses premix (and no cat) the fuel on decel is used- or if one setting up for anti-lag or just plain likes the throttle lift fireballs.
This wastes gas, and it hurts gas mileage.
It can also cause elevated EGT's which are totally unnecessary.
This may hinder engine decel on throttle lift, which may or may not affect your shifting performance.
-Ted
#11
Good points
But, if you premix it will help lubricate the seals when you lift the throttle
And if you set up for anti-lag you are probably not worried about EGTs, gas mileage or lifting off the throttle much to shift (flat shift feature timming retard to unload trans- or use antilag features richening and timming retard to unload trans).
The throttle lift fireballs are just fun for us posers...
Both fuel on decel and setting and the ignition cut rev limit setting should NOT be used w/ catylitics.
But, if you premix it will help lubricate the seals when you lift the throttle
And if you set up for anti-lag you are probably not worried about EGTs, gas mileage or lifting off the throttle much to shift (flat shift feature timming retard to unload trans- or use antilag features richening and timming retard to unload trans).
The throttle lift fireballs are just fun for us posers...
Both fuel on decel and setting and the ignition cut rev limit setting should NOT be used w/ catylitics.
#12
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Is the haltech easy to tune with the laptop or is it better to take to a dyno for a pro to do it. I want to learn, but I don't wanna mess anything up, and I DO want total control, I don't want to leave anything to chance. Does the haltech datalog as well? And last question, about my setup actually, I am planning on running 720's all around, a bell engineering rrfpr, a comp tech 255 fuel pump, a custom fmic and ofcourse the stage iv. Do you think those modifications plus proper tuning of a Haltech will work?
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4x720 probably won't be enough fuel but otherwise it should work.
Ian, I hope I don't have to redo my fuel system after I get this beast running, heh.
Did you ever think you maybe just got a bunk walbro? (Although it could be possible you're running more than 400rwhp...)
Also, what would you guys suggest in terms of restricting the turbo inlet? I've just got a 3" K&N stuck on there now, which should be great for boosting but not for breaking-in my engine...
Ian, I hope I don't have to redo my fuel system after I get this beast running, heh.
Did you ever think you maybe just got a bunk walbro? (Although it could be possible you're running more than 400rwhp...)
Also, what would you guys suggest in terms of restricting the turbo inlet? I've just got a 3" K&N stuck on there now, which should be great for boosting but not for breaking-in my engine...
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4x720 probably won't be enough fuel but otherwise it should work.
Ian, I hope I don't have to redo my fuel system after I get this beast running, heh.
Did you ever think you maybe just got a bunk walbro? (Although it could be possible you're running more than 400rwhp...)
Also, what would you guys suggest in terms of restricting the turbo inlet? I've just got a 3" K&N stuck on there now, which should be great for boosting but not for breaking-in my engine...
Ian, I hope I don't have to redo my fuel system after I get this beast running, heh.
Did you ever think you maybe just got a bunk walbro? (Although it could be possible you're running more than 400rwhp...)
Also, what would you guys suggest in terms of restricting the turbo inlet? I've just got a 3" K&N stuck on there now, which should be great for boosting but not for breaking-in my engine...
#15
I wish I was driving!
Originally posted by MazdaRx7Racer4Life
I am planning on running 720's all around, a bell engineering rrfpr, a comp tech 255 fuel pump, a custom fmic and ofcourse the stage iv. Do you think those modifications plus proper tuning of a Haltech will work?
I am planning on running 720's all around, a bell engineering rrfpr, a comp tech 255 fuel pump, a custom fmic and ofcourse the stage iv. Do you think those modifications plus proper tuning of a Haltech will work?
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Originally posted by scathcart
Did you even read what I wrote about RRFRPR's? If you're looking to lower your fuel pump flow, go ahead. RRFPR's are for when you DON'T have a tunable EMS.
Did you even read what I wrote about RRFRPR's? If you're looking to lower your fuel pump flow, go ahead. RRFPR's are for when you DON'T have a tunable EMS.
#18
I wish I was driving!
Originally posted by MazdaRx7Racer4Life
What would be your suggestions as to fuel mods? What are you going with? Maybe 2x1600 secondaries, and 2x720 primaries?
What would be your suggestions as to fuel mods? What are you going with? Maybe 2x1600 secondaries, and 2x720 primaries?
#19
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Originally posted by MazdaRx7Racer4Life
Is the haltech easy to tune with the laptop or is it better to take to a dyno for a pro to do it. I want to learn, but I don't wanna mess anything up, and I DO want total control, I don't want to leave anything to chance.
Is the haltech easy to tune with the laptop or is it better to take to a dyno for a pro to do it. I want to learn, but I don't wanna mess anything up, and I DO want total control, I don't want to leave anything to chance.
Does the haltech datalog as well?
-Ted
#21
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Originally posted by igottafc
ok sorry for asking this but i just want to get this cleared up, what does data logging mean?
ok sorry for asking this but i just want to get this cleared up, what does data logging mean?
-Ted
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Originally posted by scathcart
I set up a fuel system around horsepower goals... what are you looking to eventually make?
I set up a fuel system around horsepower goals... what are you looking to eventually make?
#24
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Originally posted by MazdaRx7Racer4Life
Is the haltech easy to tune with the laptop or is it better to take to a dyno for a pro to do it.
Is the haltech easy to tune with the laptop or is it better to take to a dyno for a pro to do it.