2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992) 1986-1992 Discussion including performance modifications and technical support sections.

Apex Seal Chatter or is it Clatter ?

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Old 03-15-03 | 01:51 AM
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Apex Seal Chatter or is it Clatter ?

Whatever it is All I want to know is what rpm does the S5 stock 13b with a big streetport usually expierience apex chatter ???

For somone who doesent know chatter or clatter involves the apex seal hitting the rotor housing really fast like vabrating against it instead of smoothly gliding across it.
Or Something like that hehe.
Old 03-15-03 | 11:29 AM
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Chatter can happen at all RPMs. At higher RPM, I would be worried about eccentric flex.
Old 03-15-03 | 11:48 AM
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From: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
in my 91 na there are huge chatter marks in the housing. 210,000miles and the car wasnt driven hard, so i dunno what the cause is

mike
Old 03-15-03 | 11:51 AM
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Lack of lubrication, and general wear on the apex seal grooves on the rotors.
Old 03-15-03 | 12:08 PM
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oh i see. Hey you have alot of posts.
Old 03-15-03 | 02:11 PM
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He has a lot of posts, but no life and no girl friend!
Old 03-15-03 | 02:13 PM
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Jelious that he has more posts than you ?

Aron Cake ? Let me know if your ever going to sell your N/A turbo conversion stuff.
Old 03-16-03 | 11:45 AM
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It's doubtfull that I will be selling it anytime soon, but I will be selling eventually. I will be done some....other unspecified...engine work in a few years after I get tired of the bridged turbo-NA engine.
Old 03-16-03 | 12:25 PM
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From: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Originally posted by Aaron Cake
Lack of lubrication, and general wear on the apex seal grooves on the rotors.
the seal grooves are all in specs though. what about the seal springs?

mike
Old 03-16-03 | 04:00 PM
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I would imagine that worn springs will cause chatter, but centrifugal force will tend to keep the seals against the rotor housing.
Old 03-16-03 | 05:42 PM
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Maybe it's from not bieng hard enough on it

I beat the **** out of mine daily. Actually, before I rebuilt the engines, I would beat the living snot out of that car, redline everytime i shifted. No chatter on the housings when i took it apart. I dont think thats the problem

But seriously, its probably lack of lubrication ... dead oil metering pump.
Old 03-16-03 | 05:50 PM
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Its usaly S**t quality Apex's.

You dont see expencive Ceramics or even Mazda's own 3 pc Tips doing it.

I have been told its due to the weight of the Apex? as the engine spins faster the Apex (being heavy) creates more force and pushes so hard against the Housing the Oil is removed and starts a Snag then not sort of motion.

Chris
Old 03-16-03 | 06:11 PM
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Apex seal chatter begins at about 6000-6500, and gets potentially fatal at 8500, with stock iron seals.
- by peejay, from here

I've read several people say that it starts around 6k, one even said "6,200".
Old 03-16-03 | 07:41 PM
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So will I be able to spin to 10k safely with a large *** Godzilla port and say a turbo oil pump? Will this be sufficiant for the engine to last 20k
Old 03-17-03 | 03:27 AM
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Originally posted by von
So will I be able to spin to 10k safely with a large *** Godzilla port and say a turbo oil pump? Will this be sufficiant for the engine to last 20k
Please enlighten me as to WTF a Godzilla port is..
10k you would have some problems with the standard excentric shaft i'd imagine, if your serious about spinning it that high, maybe consider getting a 2piece shaft. Get some good carbon(maybe ceramic?) apex seals aswell.
Old 03-17-03 | 03:29 AM
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I thought carbon sealz shatterd when exposed to the slightest detonation ?

how much are they?
Old 03-17-03 | 11:54 PM
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So do most apex seals.. a very good reason why your motor shouldn't be detonating in the frist place..

Probably quite expensive from what i've heard, I wouldn't know though, i've never really looked into it.
Old 03-18-03 | 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by von
a large *** Godzilla port
have you seen my new King Kong port?
Old 03-18-03 | 01:50 AM
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Hmm, aaron, unspecified engine work? and your av says '2-rotor not enough'. Are you planning a 3 rotor swap?
Old 03-18-03 | 03:06 AM
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King Kong Lol I will use that on the next rebuild when I go bridge the Godzilla Port
Old 03-18-03 | 09:35 PM
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godzilla is combined 4 and 6 ports isn't it.
Old 03-19-03 | 12:28 AM
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yeah
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