vanix

I eliminated the trailing plugs and the car(TII) runs like a champ. Did anyone else do this, if so what are the pros and cons. I haven't found any cons, its supposed to bring the torque up also. I have microtec along with many other mods. I was just lookin for a little info. thanks

RRTEC

iTrader: (13)

This is new to me.....

NZConvertible

It'll run fine, it'll just have slightly higher emissions and fuel consumption. There's no advantage to it. Dunno why you're so excited...

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

you managed to spell microtech wrong not only in this post but also in your sig.

you fail, btw the trailing plugs help promote complete combustion, there is no cons to having it however there is cons to not having it...

vipers

iTrader: (8)

trust me.... if there was no need for extra plugs, it would have come from mazda that way.... why go through all the trouble of enginnering the extra plug holes, programming the timing, etc.. for no gains? i dont see how getting rid of extra (needed) spark will help torque..

AUGieDogie

iTrader: (4)

Three words...............
SUB
ZERO
ASSIST

FC3S Murray

iTrader: (7)

Im running all four but they are all Trailing BUR9EQ plugs. I read it on Ted's site and figured since I needed to change my plugs I might as well try it since my set up is getting pretty fast.

NZConvertible

Do you really think that can be compared to the trailing ignition system in any way? You do realise that every single Mazda production rotary has had two plugs per rotor right?

gerbraldy

I thought signatures were only suppose to be 4lines long... what ever happen'd to that?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

First make certain the trailing plugs are operating properly, eg when car at idle, it should run on just the trailing plugs, and if they are firing, put it on a dyno and you'll see the difference. The key is to make sure they are actually firing, not just the spark jumping from the wire to the plug, but the plug actually firing.

I know it's been a long time ago, but Mazda and NGK had a great deal of problems keeping the trailing plugs firing on the S4. Long story short, as I became very involved with this situation, and Mazda ended up buying back my '88 TII with 3,000 miles. Both Mazda and NGK admitted to this problem, and if you look at the S5 housings, the trailing plugs are spaced farther from the leading. After Mazda bought the car back, they then gave me a '89TII at dealer's cost, which I still have, and it's been great for 17 years.

RETed

Oh gawd, here we go again...
Try doing a search for "anti detonation device".

KDR was doing this crap several years ago, until word got out.
They were charging several HUNDRED dollars to pull the trailings and install blank plugs!

NO, IT DOES NOT "BRING TORQUE UP."
In fact, you're LOSING power.
Mazda claims almost 10% of the power comes from the trailings.
It's been written up in an SAE paper - http://www.sae.org/

KDR was claiming it helps fight detonation by allowing the combustion to run richer - pshaw, yeah, cause you don't get complete combustion.
KDR was claiming the trailings were the major causes of detonation and ignition problems - pshaw, yeah, cause owners did not know how to maintain and program their ignition timing properly.

As it has been stated, you get incomplete combustion.
You're wasting fuel - your mileage goes down.
Your emissions goes up due to the unburned portion of the intake charge.

The rotary engine has no problem running on the leadings.
That's not a huge surprise.
Any one of us can unplug their trailing coil packs and almost feel no difference in how the engine is running.
You're not uncovering anything new or ground-breaking.


-Ted

a143gsxr

iTrader: (1)

My car detonated frequently above 10psi until I removed the trailing plugs. Now the car rips. The trailing plugs are a clean-up plug and yeah you do get a few ponies out of them. And from above, yes you can crack an iron just with a trailing plug detonating. When you run high boost and lots of fuel(low 11's) there is quiet a bit of fuel left over for the trailing spark to deal with. Why do you guys think that everyone with standalones brings the timing split down from 15 degrees to 10, 8, 5, or even 0. It's to prevent this nasty detonation. For us making big power with the emanage or anything other than a standalone which doesn't have the ability to split the leading and trailing timing, removing the trailing plugs is the only way out. I split my rear iron on a trailing detonation and wasn't even blasting the motor, just zip'n around. never again. And lastly, mazda puts a **** load of things on the car that we simply don't need. And Dave at KDR charged that 400 bucks as a warranty to cover his ***, the same as you'd pay for any used car warranty that you bought. You don't get anything for the price of the warranty, just piece of mind that if your stuff breaks someone is there to back you up. And dave knows that with the trailing plugs out the chance of cracking an iron is greatly reduced. i'm out, stephen.

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

didn't the 787b run 3 plugs per rotor?

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

No, the way out would be standalone....ask me about how I know....the emanage is fine.....For adjusting some fuel in your N/A....you are trying to make it seem that any yahoo with an Emanage can simply chuck his trailing plugs and slap a giant turbo on there and never worry about detonation.

Have you any idea why???? You were (are) running an E-manage, right? You've got your fuel cranked up, right? (see above quote).....do you know what the stock ECU does when it thinks its got waaaaay too much air going into the motor??? It ***** with your timing. Thats why you blew the motor, the emanage made your stock ecu think OMGWTFBBQ!! and it messed your timing. Not because Mazda engineered trailing plugs.

You blew it up because you didn't have the timing control needed to run the power you ran. Not because of trailing plugs....

You can still detonate your motor without trailing plugs....you'd just need really fucked up timing and super low octane fuel (or too low for the motor/tuning)

snowball

sooo... people are trading power for a lower chance to detonate because they cant tune worth ****?
thats what i got out of this...
anyone pulling their trailing fails at life.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Pretty much.
I think they moral of this story is that if you don't have to money to run the power you want properly, then wait until you do.

RETed

Can you tell us why it was doing this?


I'm having a hard time understanding what you're trying to say.
Do you have a dyno sheet available?


Are you implying that detonation from the trailing spark plugs is the only way to crack an iron?


What is high boost?
You mentioned 10psi - I don't consider that high boost.
My definition of high boost is what pump gas cannot handle - which is usually over 20psi.
I don't consider "low 11's" (I'm assuming you're talking about AFR's) to be "lots of fuel".
Something under 10's is a LOT of fuel.
Some will even tell you that "low 11's" is NOT ENOUGH FUEL.
You don't think you cracked an iron running lean???


Wrong.
Split runs to "0" at "0" manifold.
The split actually opens up when going into boost.
Some run over 10-degrees of split after that.

And you're wrong about detonation due to no split...
I was running 1-degree of split (basically no split) on my Haltech E8 maps running up to 10psi of boost.
My engine is still intact.
I run it hard daily up to 10psi for the past couple months so far.
Why hasn't my engine blew up yet???


What is "big power"?
You're totally wrong about pulling the trailings as the only way out.
I run trailing split - 0 and positive split.
I run my trailing plugs - duh.
My engine is still running.
How do you explain that?


How did you come to this conclusion?
Did KDR feed you some bullshit too?


Wow, I didn't know Dave sells used cars too...


-Ted

MaczPayne

iTrader: (5)

Tsk tsk tsk, trying to re-engineer 20+ years of mazda research. Fail.

Icemark

Probably either had the wrong plug in there or have the engine poorly tuned

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

ooo I can't believe I missed that one.

Yes, yes they did. They put a cold-start assist system on there, a rear wiper, the automatic seatbelts, the shift up light. But do any of these things compare to the ignition system of the engine? Not at all.

And if the trailings were really not required...or rather as your putting it...if the trailing plugs caused motors to blow up....then why does every single RX Ive ever seen, owned, driven, tuend, painted etc. have trailing plugs and an intact engine.

Your "trailing plug detonation" is the exception, not the rule. And either way, the exception could have been fixed with proper tuning as opposed to canabalistic butchering of Mazda's design.

jl1rx7

iTrader: (1)

i agree with the notion that mazda made a good engine and put alot of r & d monies into needing the trailing plugs. and to say that they got it wrong with seat belts and rear wipers, that was due to regulations and trying to conform to meeting market demands, not engineering mistakes. Yes i know that they took short cuts in the design, but all products have those trade offs, and just think we all drive cars that are ~15 years old or older, with mostly the same parts that they came with from the factory, so mazda must have gotten a few things right.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

+1

they are there for a reason.

There's a sizable power increase in my car between no trailing, and trailing.

also, I enjoy having a working tachometer.