i was just wandering if anybody has been brave enough to put the turbo in the front bumper like all the drag compacts....ive seen tons of third gens but no TIIs. i am getting my t04 in about a week, i just got my arc welder in yesterday and i got the electrodes for it today, and ordered my exhaust flange today....it just crossed my mind to do it.....i have a huge hole before my fender well where my cold air intake is, so i can mount the turbo there(where the windshield washer resivoir used to be) and have the intercooler pipe come through there...i was gonna make brackets for my radiator to make it come closer to the motor, so i can mount a front mount intercooler in front of it.....this setup seems really easy, the turbo will get TONS of air via the brake duct, and i can do it myself. does this seem like a good project to do or will all the heat from the turbo mess something up? if all else fails, i'll just do an STS style exhaust mounted setup, so the turbo will be outta the engine bay, and it will dramatically reduce engine, and turbo temps either way.

 

Well, lets think a little bit. Turbo in bumper = no filter. No filter = debris in turbo. Debris = turbo and engine go BOOM. Drag racers don't car because they rebuild their engines and turbos and transmissions PER 1-2 races. DON'T DO IT.

 

Why wouldn't he be using a filter?

 

If you can mount it in a place big enough to fit the turbo AND a filter on it, go ahead..

 

there is plenty of room to get my mass air in there, too and they make a cool filter now where it's like a K n N screen that covers the hole in the mass air, instead of having a big *** filter on it.....the only thing i think i might have trouble with is running the exhaust back out of the turbo.....i could go under the a arm and then its a straight shot out of the back of the car, i am only gonna run 2.5" pipe with 18" rims so i dont think the exhaust will hit the ground but then the exhaust will run about 8" on the other side of where you jack the car up so it will be slightly visible...i guess i need to get a body kit first so the side skirts can cover it up, then it will be a tight set up.

 

Well, let's look at all the problems here. NOT trying to be a dick like last time, I'm in a better mood now . You would have to run the exhaust past the engine..and down to where the turbo is. Now the turbo itself doesn't get quite as hot as the exhaust piping..having full exhaust piping running right by the engine could be HORRIBLY hot. Unless you heat-wrapped the **** out of it, and built a custom air box from the back of the engine to the last bit of exposed exhaust piping. You would also want to wrap the air box in heat wrap.

Now, you mentioned 2.5 inch piping. If you want to get maximum air IN the turbo, why would you want to choke it with 2.5 inch exhaust piping? Any turbo that is pushing more than 12psi almost NEEDS 3" piping. Sometimes 3.5". 2.5" is just not suitable, especially if this is going to be a high-horsepower car. And..if it's not, why take the trouble of mounting the turbo in the front? You won't reduce heat all that much, because of the extensive exhaust piping.

A simple heat-wrapped intake pipe going down to the brake duct with a filter on it..attached to the turbo in it's stock, or near stock mounting position, would be more than enough. Oh, and think of all the extra intercooler piping. You would have to have a pretty badass turbo to pressurize that much piping. To get it down to the area you are planning, you would HAVE to have a front mount, and then to get it to the turbo you'd have to have some amazing bends in the piping, very restrictive.

And for my last bout, What to do about exhaust manifold placement? Sure, you can run exhaust piping to the hotside of the turbo, but what about attaching the ports to the turbo? I don't see it happening without a shitload of cash!

 

well i guess you are right about getting the manifold to the turbo, even if i fab my own it will be a hassel bc the only way i see it happening is to run the manifold through the fender well and thats not happening. but to the second setup....what about the remote mounted turbo like STS does.....that would be a breeze to do and the turbo would be after the engine and out of the bay......i would just have a long exhaust manifold, and the extra length of the ic piping and cooler turbo temps would aid in cooling the air off before it is slammed into the engine...this would be way more reasonable to do.....and there is tons of air flow under the car and i could fab a heat shield/cover to go under the turbo to help in keeping water out.....and by the way, you're not an ***, honestly you are a big help. keep it coming guys.....if anybody has done this type of setup let me know, bc i see nothing but benefits here.

 

on the sts site they also claim that boost comes so fast that by moving the turbo back to the exhaust, there is no more lag than normal and that there might not even be a need for an intercooler

 

oh and if this helps i have an s4 TII....i just want about 12 psi with front mount intercooler, air/fuel controller, 720cc secondairies and street port, but by all means with the turbo out of the engine bay

 

Probably not, because it's a stupid thing to do to a street car. Even if it fitted (which I highly doubt), you haven't mentioned one worthwhile advantage to this.

 

Agreed... And also look at it this way...

All the sport compacts you see with turbos in the bumper are FWD... The turbo is already mounted in the front of the engine bay... It's kinda pointless to relocate the turbo on a rotary, except to get it away from the block, in which case you would simply move it up rather tha forward...

 

Oh and, have you noticed that the SRS turbo's smoke...a LOT..after substantial revving? I was just watching the clips. The Vette's smoked a LOT, the GTO's smoked as if he never stopped the burnout. And..blah, that just doesn't seem feasible. If they say there is no turbo lag, they have to be sadly mistaken . Turbo's are supposed to be as close to the exhaust as possible! As in as close to the exhaust ports of the block as you can get them! Not 10 feet down the track lol..

Notice how long the piping on those cars is? Hehe

 

ya know I've been mildly interested in the sts setup.. heard about it a while ago.. saw it on a car... had no more lag than usuall... but thats because they don't use an intercooler... the cold side pipe runs the length of the bottom of the car and the normal wind cools the air before it gets to the throttle body.. dunno how well it cools... seems it could actually be better than an intercooler... cause it is in cold pipe longer... and the oil lines would be cooler too.. i'd just be afraid of someone jacking my turbo or hitting it on a speed bump. down side seems like the exhaust gas would get too cold.. which means it isn't moving as fast... you'd have to heat wrap the whole manifold all the way to the turbo.

 

Turbo's are not supposed to be as close to the exhaust ports as possible. The length of the runners must be tuned to the specific motor / desired power band for optimum performance. I am unsure if any of you have seen Hassan's manifold, the runners are about 20 inches long I believe and curve around to the front of the motor. Compressor side facing towards the drivers side. It is a real piece of art. There would be no reason to go through all that trouble if the 20 inch runners didn't do anything for him.

-Marques

 

^^^ not really

length of runners doesnt have to be tuned...

look at those rear mounted turbo

 

Whatever you say bud.

Here is a pic of his setup. Dual wastegates, equal length runners.

 

I just skimmed the topic, so sorry if I am repeating anything...

I have never seen an FD with a "bumper mounted" turbo before. Ever. I'm not an FD guy, but I've looked at thousands.

Most of the drag racers that mount their turbos up there are FWD. It's just a convenient spot.

If you are going to try and make a turbo manifold with a stick welder, have fun. If this is your first welding project and you don't have much experience running a stick welder, you'll just make a huge mess of it. Welding tube is best done with some kind of wire feed (flux core, MIG) or TIG. With stick, you'll find that you either won't get any penetration, or you will burn through. There will be very little space between the two.

Turbo manifold (turbo header) runner length DOES matter. It's just that most people don't go through the trouble of tuning it. Like any exhaust tuning, runner length and diameter can be tuned to find a happy medium between exhaust velocity and restriction. Most people can't be bothered to make 10 manifolds to find the best combination, so normally you just want to make sure that the runners are equal length.

 

yo NZ there are no advantages my ***.....lets see cooler turbo, cooler air, cooler intake temps, cooler oil, more engine bay space, no turbo to heat and destroy hoses under the hood.....exhaust and boost move very fast and exhaust flow is constant, so i dont think turbo lag is an issue....and who says that a turbo has to be close to the block and at the rear of the engine unless FWD...umm lets see, 3rd gen RWD, supra RWD 300zx RWD....all are known to have turbos mounted in the front bumper, so that was possibly the stupidest thing ive heard.....and i know yall are lashing me bc you are scared to try something different like always but i want my car to be better, and this just has no negatives.

 

hey watson thats a nice pic of a beautiful and DIFFERENT setup.......definitely no lag there....thats a GREAT idea to move it to the front of the engine, wrap the crap out of everything so the heat stays in and the e fan can even play a part in keeping it cool....what yall think of that setup guys, pretty nice huh.

 

I don't see what the difference is between mounting the turbo out front, and just running an intake to the front bumper.

-Cooler air, air temp will be the same as long as it originates fromt the same area.
-Cooler turbo, maybe, but I haven't overheated any turbos lately.
-Cooler intake temps, same as cooler air to me
-Cooler oil, not so sure about that
-More engine bay space, don't forget about the manifold that you will have to run all the way to the bumper. What are you going to use to support the manifold? I'm sure it would be prone to cracking with all that weight hanging off the front. You will need to brace it to the frame somehow or another. Which means you will need to use solid engine mounts so the motor/turbo can not move independent of the frame.
-no turbo heat, how about the manifold running all the way to the turbo, and the downpipe running all the way back through the engine bay. They do make turbo heat blankets, exhaust wraps and coatings, etc. to combat heat.
-Exhaust and boost moves very fast and exhaust flow is constant, meh that's a little vague. Any proof that it will flow any better/faster/more constant?

Don't get mad at NZ, he has put many people in their place (including me a couple times) and is right 99 percent of the time. I normally take his word as rotary gospel, along with Aaron Cake and various others.

-Marques

 

How is this an advantage? Who has turbo temp problems with the turbo mounted on the engine bay?

Where? In the engine bay? Has the engine stopped radiatoing heat? Has the radiator stopped discharging hot air?

Putting the air filter behind the bumper is a lot easier, and has the same effect.

How could this possibly make the oil cooler?

Space that will instead be taken up by two pipes from the engine to the turbo and one from the turbo to under the car.

There are plenty of products avaiable to both limit the heat radiated from the turbo and protect nearby hoses from that heat. Both are far cheaper and easier than moving the turbo. What hoses are you talking about anyway?

Show us all of these amazing street cars that nobody's seen before. No drag cars, just street cars. Drag cars are irrelevant.

Yeah we're all terrified. Or it might be that we're thinking about this a little harder...

 

And you know that how? Sounds like you're just guessing...

The fan runs when the coolant is hot, and hence will only blow hot air, so no.

 

first of all youre not as smart as ya think, heat kills everything mechanical, including engines ant turbos.....why do you think they are water cooled, oil cooler or both so cooler turbo means longer turbo life and that is a fact.....yes the efan blows hot air but at least its air, so say youre in a room with no ventilation during the summer, would you rather have no air or some hot air.....IT HELPS...and im just guessing that it is a nice and different setup, how can i guess about that, so thats retarded to say....and why wrap everything with a crap load of wrap whenever you can get all the benefits in one package.....you know there can never be any positive remarks on here, just give people props on having a good setup like above bc it is creative and there is not another 7 out there like it. sorry guys if you have second gen you cant do anything like crazy turbo setups, body kits, wings or anything, it has to be stock always......but its perfectly fine for the third gen people to do all this and its cool....well all i can say is that i have to keep my sponsor happy, so i have to get creative......sorry for not wanting to keep my turbo in the stock position, i need to be stoned...ahh shut up.

 

Actually, it LOOKS like that guy's setup is so the filter will get air from radiator. I can't see any other reason he mounted right there xD. And if you think he is innovative and a genius, well you are mistaken again. He will be drawing in hot air from the turbo, engine block, and e-fan! The stock air-box would have produced cooler air then where that filter currently resides. And if you think lag is completely boxed around the fact that the turbo is away from that particular side of the block, you are sadly mistaken. Lag is lag..lag is piping length, runner length, size of turbo, amount of pressurization a tube or runner needs to be..pressurized..It doesn't just magically disappear when you put the turbo somewhere it didn't come stock.

Maybe you haven't noticed this bit of information. You said a few times, the site says it has no more lag than normal. Well I also just said that a fat chick in my front seat gave me no more weight in my car then normal. But REALLY, placebo, the fact that she's about to give me head, or maybe in you're case it's that the turbo is anywhere but stock, that this idea hits you in the head. Just because you THINK it, or because someone SAYS it..doesn't mean it's true. This is ESPECIALLY true with people trying to sell products. They will say anything if it will make you want to get it, and guess what, it looks like you want to get it..Marketing strategies, oh boy!

Edited for a little spelling, and to say, TURBO'S RUN ON HEAT. Getting the turbo cooled down won't exactly "help" you. Having the turbo HOLD it's OWN heat (Heat blanket, for example) is ok, but putting a bag of ICE on it will DETER performance.

 

No, too much heat kills things. There are lots of people here making bucketloads of power with the turbo in more of less the stock position without destroying everything in the engine bay.

And yet look how long the turbo can last in the stock position. Like I said, who has trouble with an overheated turbo? Your supposed advantage is solving a non-existant problem.

That's a totally meaningless comparison. Ventilating a room for people is a totally different topic. I can't see why the turbo in that pic would even need extra fan cooling. What it does need is a cold air intake, instead of one that sucks air straight off the radiator.

Because it's much cheaper, much easier, it works, and you don't need a "crap load" of it. In your post about the turbo in the pic above you said "wrap the crap out of everything so the heat stays in". So first it was good but now it's not?

If there was even a chance that you might actually do this, you'd probably get a lot more respect. But that doesn't seem very likely so I guess there's not really much point in arguing the pros and cons with you. If you think this is such a great plan, go do it and prove us all wrong. If you can prove all the advantages you posted, I'll be the first to bow down to you.

BTW, it would've been nice if you'd answered the questions I asked. I'm not just trying to insult you for the hell of it, I was actually trying to debate the subject. Unlike you, I haven't called your intelligence into question.