jgrts20

hey guy/gals,

just wondering if the actuators are adjustable. I think they are cause they have the screw thingy on the bottoms of them. Does anyone know this for a fact. I did the port mod illustrated here http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showth...threadid=42367 but I need at least 15 psi to activate my ports and the pumps only putting out 5 psi. Any suggestions?

thanx
chris

Icemark

the aux port actuators only need around 2.1 PSI to open on a S4, not 15 psi.

<edit- and after reading that thread on the install, I have seldom seen such a fucked up mixed up mess, that should have who ever posted that shot. Just sticking wires into random plugs and all the crappy wire runs that that idiot did , is just asking for all sorts of electrical issues.

And people say the FC electrical is bad. Its bad because of idiots like that.

jgrts20

normally yea they do just need 5 psi at the max, but I put a compressor on the hose and it needs about 10-15 psi to open them. Thats why I was wondering what that screw does at the bottom of the actuators and if they are adjustable.

Ted Webster

Those actuators are not adjustable--There is a much simpler method of getting the ports to open at the 3800 rpm mark using the oem eqipt on the engine. It involves using the air pump and the cat back pressure pipe and there is no wiring involved. I set mine up on a 88 n/a with R/B header and Apexi N1 dual without the muffler insert, (virtually no back pressure) and it works very well. The actuators open at 3800 every time!!--Do a search on the forum, or look in the archives-- its there!! Sloppy wiring always leads to electrical failures in a hot engine compartment or even worse, an electrical engine fire. After that, the car is rarely the same again!!

jgrts20

just for your info, the way things are setup on that mod it works fine. So tell me why not to connect it that way!! The connections are clean and not a fire hazard. So getting back to the original question why would do my actuators need 10-15 psi to open then and what can I use to get the 15 psi I need? That wire running off the ignition is for connecting something to do with rpm, Ive tested all connectors before doing the mod and they are well enough to handle the load. Anywho that wire does it job turning on the rpm switch with the right adjustsment.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

They probably need replaced. They do tend to corrode and stick.

Icemark

If they are really needing 15 psi to open then they are dirty and jammed up, and you need to disassemble the intake and clean the rods and sleeves. Or the actuators are bad, and need to be replaced because one is leaking.

And no the way things are set up in that write up is just horrible. Jamming wires into unknown plugs is hideous and just asking for all sorts of electrical problems. Any idiot that does that without actually researching the plugs and wires is just asking for electrical issues. Look here- bare wires coming out of a crappy crimp josb

Doing a electrical air pump activation of the aux ports should be wired with relays, and with its own fuse. Not tapping off unknown wires and hoping that a fuse does not blow because now the stock circuit is overloaded. Frankly anyone doing that poor of wiring as in that, or even suggesting tapping into unknown plugs diserves every electrical problem they will get.Look no insulation again... what happens if that wire shorts... you loose tach, power steering, cruise, etc.

If I still posted on that board, I would have pointed out there on what a crappy set up that is. (and those type of threads is one of the reasons I don't post over there anymore- too much bogus mis-sinformation) Someone who still posts there, should post pointing out how bad that is just to protect the unknowing members who read that and think it is acceptable to do.

Further examples of a true botched up micky mouse job:

Never every ground on the same bolt that is holding something in place. If the screws back out from vibration on the pump... the pump looses ground.... toss that in with using non-insulated connectors, so if the screw backs out enough for the pump to come loose, it then drops and the circuit shorts out, hopefully blown the fuse, but if not taking out what ever circuit he stuffed the power wire in.

But wait there is more botched up micky mouse stuff:
Nothing like pincing the wires between the rubber and the metal... gee that won't rub through and short out in 5K miles.

And then lets really make it micky mouse by using home wiring (read no vibration) connectors... yep wire nuts:

Turbo7MN

Glad to see that you like my work

What makes you think that the connectors are "unknown"? The first one for the switch is the engine check connector, and I can't remember off hand what the other one is. I have a wiring diagram and I assure you that it's all fine. I was in a hurry when I did that crimp. A couple weeks ago, it came loose so I redid it better. You're right on that.

I used a relay, not sure what you hoped to accomplish here

I have no power steering or cruise. Thanks for your concern though.

Why do we need to bring Team FC3S into it? To be honest, I find it to be a much more friendly place than here



I check the connections just about every time I drive the car. If someting comes loose, I know about it. I'm not an idiot.


Where's the metal? As far as I can tell, the place I ran it through is all rubber. Nice try though.

I admitted that I had the connector ghetto-rigged. Nonetheless, it is in the car where I can keep an eye on it.

I appreciate your criticism but I assure you that this opens the ports reliably every time, and the only problem I had was with the one crappy crimp job, which was my carelessness, not a problem with the system. I have said it before, I only speak from experience. I would appreciate it if next time you have a problem with what I do with my car, contact me priveately, or offer helpful suggestions instaed of calling me an idiot.

-Darren

Syonyk

Whoof.

Back to the original problem, the actuators should NOT be taking 10-15 PSI to open. You should be able to open them by blowing into the vacuum line attached to them (or, better, a clean chunk of vacuum line). If this isn't the case, the actuators are sticky, or the ports themselves are sticking, or you have a nasty air leak somewhere.

Start there.

-=Russ=-

Icemark

No, you do not understand. The power should come from a fuse on the battery, that then is switched by relays. Based on what you have going here, there should be at least two relays in the circuit.

but others do. So showing a bad connection like that is just illresponsible.

... I guess well see. ... but again other will see that and think it acceptable. Such connections are never acceptable.

Nope, you posted such a botched job, that others actually were refering to it, that it was my duty to point out such a dangerous set up.

IMO you system is installed no different than if someone left all the bolts off of the top of a shock tower. I would call that out the same way, but at least with leaving the bolts off, you probably wouldn't burn or blow something up. I guess I have seen too many cars burnt or damaged from your type of install (more than I ever have from PD failure) than anything else. So members should know.

petex

actually he's right, the way that people ghetto-rig their FCs is AMAZING. i've seen crazy **** left/right....

jgrts20

dont worry turbo, Icemark is just jealious, because on theyre rotery res website the have a getto way of doing this port mod example use a regular pump and basically allowing the pump to be open http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/ here read this and theyre ******* your setup, ha thats funny!! obviously, you did a quick job for the writeup and i thanx you for it. Turbos setup works fine with no problems, congrats. My actuators must be sticking or something cause it needs 10-15 psi to open. Im gonna try to clean out the lines I think it might be plugged. anywho my brother knows everything about car electrical stuff and we research every wire connector used. After doing research on both ways of doing this mod the fc3s mod was more realiable and just a better setup on doing it right!! Thanx
chris

sleejay

thats just comedy GOLD

jgrts20

let see......lemme answer some questions on what these wire connectors are:

#1 this wire is for the check connector on the coil with igniter, this is use for checking rpm to see if adjustment need to be made on the gauge. You can use this for petty much anything to do with rpmage.

jgrts20

the #2 connector is the engine check connector and the #3 connector is an open wire which can be use to connect anything that will turn with the key, example driving lights. With a relay, that pump WILL not harm or cause any problems what so ever!! not a big enough load of anything with the pump.

Icemark

So... (lets make this clear and understood) if the device you wire up to it, shorts out internally while the engine is running...

the factory ign fuse flows and the car dies while driving down the road

So luckily the trailing coil uses the same power lead, so it dies too at least saving your motor from early death of trailing coil pre-fire detonation.

ohhh that seems safe.

But if Turbo7MN did it correctly, he would have wired off a fused lead from the battery to a relay that switched on with ignition, and then if something shorted or blew up (like- gee I don't know... like maybe a revlimter that got water in it from being mounted on a shock tower)... then only the fuse would blow and the car wouldn't die.

Yeah... using that plug like he did sure is fine and safe

Icemark

Ah yes, Jealous. I have yet to see any car here that I would be jealous of. No point in being jealous. There will be always someone with a faster better car in their opinion, and someone with a piece o crap that they think is good. I drive for my fun, not too look cool or beat everyone in the neighborhood.

I am not familiar with Kevin’s set up or write up, but Kevin and I do not always agree on things (for example he also advocates the use a of a banjo bolt instead of a PD). So I am not sure what point you are making. I still respect Kevin and the work he does, but I am sure he did not post anything as Mickey Mouse as was posted in that thread that you are claiming works fine (yet still needs 15 psi to open something that should be open with 2 psi).

But as I said before... your actuators are probably jammed anyway... but didn't you rebuild your motor last year??? Should be jammed in a year- maybe 10 - 15 years... maybe I was thinking of some other newbi who rebuilt their motor.

Turbo7MN

jgrts20, I appreciate you backing me up on this. Really. I apologize for ignoring your initial question. The actuators themselves are not adjustable, but an MSD RPM switch uses varied resistance to control what RPM to open the ground at. Rather than pay $30 for a 5-pack of resistors, I picked up a potentiometer at Radio Shack.

Uhhh, that would be RPM switch. Do you even know what you're talking about?

Tell you what. I'm going to get my diagram and find out exactly what that other connector does, and maybe find out how many amps the pump draws. Sound good?

-Darren

Turbo7MN

Okay, here's what I can tell you. The power wire I used on the relay connects to the "4AT" relay which is only used in (obviously) cars equipped with an automatic transmission. That is in turn connected to the kick down solenoid. Now, the power wire is black with a yellow stripe, which means it comes off the 7.5 amp "Meter" fuse. Yes, I know more about the FC's electrical system than you give me credit for. Worst case, it blows and I lose my guages. Not exactly ideal, but no permanent harm to the car. That's what fuses are there for, right? There is also a black 6-pin (4 wire) connector for an electric fan relay that is also not used on a car with a manual transmission. This one connects to the cooling fan motor. That's right- the system can handle an E-fan. The power wire comes off the same fuse, so I used the one that was easiest to access. Use whatever one makes you feel better. jgrts20, unfortunately you weren't exactly correct on "Connector #3". It means a lot to actually have support on this forum though, thank you.

The check connector was really not a concern, the MSD switch is only capable of transferring 1.5 amps, and all it does in my system is open a relay. I'm not sure how you figure it would get wet? It was just raining this morning and there wasn't a drop on the switch.

I am sorry that I was not able to remember all of that off the top of my head last night, I never thought it was something I would need to remember down the line. By the way, if you were referring to my "if you find a multi-pin connector in the engine bay, it has a power wire" comment before, I meant that as a joke more than anything. I'm actually a pretty funny guy when I want to be.

The one uninsulated connection for the tach signal came that way. The MSD switch came with that uninsulated connector on there, so I just worked with that. I'll wrap electrical tape around it later if you really think it could cause a problem.

Now I tested the draw from the pump as well. This monster pulls a whopping 1.9 amps.

I forgot to comment on this before, but the pump is held on by two bolts. You can’t tell from that picture, I should have made that clearer. I doubt both of them would come off at exactly the same time.

If there are any other problems you would like addressed, please point them out. I don't think I've ever seen anyone try so hard to destroy my credibility, and I'd like to see what other "problems" I have. In the meantime, I will keep referring people to my port mod. I really do appreciate some of what you're doing by the way, I always like finding better ways to do things, and if there is a possible safety hazard with something I have done to my car, I'd like to know about it. I don't appreciate someone saying I should be shot though.

-Darren

Turbo7MN

I would also like to add that if anyone who has actually done this has problems with it, please post it in my original thread on Team FC3S. I promise that I'll do the same if I ever have problems.

rx7roller02

Let's take a little break here, guys....this is gonna get nowhere fast.

Turbo7MN--I think you are missing the point here. The issue is NOT about whether or not you check your car each time before you drive it--but the fact that you did this in such a manner that REQUIRES such a check before you drive it. Think about this for a second--you check the wires out before you start it up, right? Then you turn the key and drive off. But tell me--when do you think that a connection will vibrate loose--before you check it out each morning, or AFTER you already checked it and are driving? I think that was the whole point that you missed. You can check it all you want when it is idle, but then once you are driving, that is when things can come loose. And when they do, that is the time that **** will get messed up. NO ONE said it won't work that way--they just said it is not safe, and they are right. If it is worth taking the time and effort to do in the first place, why wouldnt you do it right? That way, you dont have to pop the hood each day just to go to the store. Coming form the POV I have--someone who has installed plenty of electronics, stereos, etc etc in cars, that is just plain ghetto and there is no reason to do that. Instead of taking such offense to that, why not just listen to it for what it's worth? A veteran of the forums with more knowledge than many of us put together has told you that this can kill your car--why not just accept that as someone telling you to be careful so you don't ruin your FC? Use it as HELP, not an insult.

The wiring inside the car is simply not excuseable IMO--there are plenty of ways and places to run those wires so they are hidden and therefore out of the way. That thing dangles right down where your foot is when you are driving--and that is not very smart. Tuck that thing up under the dash and secure it properly--it is so simple to do and not doing it can really mess up your whole day.

It is good to see you trying something out on your car, but you need to do these things much safer than this. Our cars are old enough as it is--and the wiring along with them--that we have enough electrical issues to deal with, without making more for ourselves.

TurboIIGuy

I have never seen such a crappy messed up dangerous wiring job in my life!!!!!................WTF???

jgrts20

Find then I will run a fuse off the battery to the relay. So you cant tell me its wrong. Further more my line to the ports is blocked abit and thanx for the people that actually answered the question. Peace guys and thanx again Turbo7.

chris

Turbo7MN

And I did hide it after I took the pics. You really think I would drive the car with a wire right in front of the gas pedal? I can get new pictures of anything you guys want.

Also, I check everything I do several times after I do it. I know that no matter how good of a job I think I did, I still could have screwed something up, not tightened something enough, etc. No matter how I did it, I still would be checking it. It's worth the extra minute or two. I'm not sure how else I could mount the pump though, duct tape maybe? And I know that it will come out while driving if it comes out at all, but I really don't think it would be an all-at-once kind of thing. Driving the car once would loosen it a little, drive the car again it would loosen a little more. If it loosens at all (which it has not by the way) I should be able to catch it before it comes all the way out. Worst case, if one bolt comes off the ground comes loose, if both manage to come off at the same time the pump falls down and is clunking around in the engine bay.

If I end up with a wire barbecue in my engine bay, the first thing I will do is come on here and admit that I was wrong. I just hope that it won't happen to anyone else if there really is a problem.

If someone called you an idiot and said you should be shot, wouldn't you take it as an insult? If Icemark had been more civil about it to begin with, it would have been a lot better and I wouldn't have gotten so defensive. Thanks for your opinion though.

Hey, no problem. When you redo it, maybe you can post some pictures of how you did it so people have another option of how to run the wires. I'm sorry that this thread had to get so off topic, and I hope that everything work out for you no matter how you choose to do it.

-Darren

Icemark

See what you are missing Darren, is that the install is a botched up mess.

I am not saying it does not work. I am not saying that your setup is bad.

I am saying it is wired poorly and poorly installed and should never have been posted with such a poor install saying "this is how to do it".

I have no problem with using a rev limiter (or RPM switch as you call it) as a switch for an air pump (although personally I think it a waste of time when there is a perfectly good air pump already on the engine- but that is another thread/story).

So again my only point is that it is a bad install that should not be used as an example of how to do something. I am sure the job was done that way just because you didn't know better, but ignorance really is no excuse. Do it right, then show it and I am sure people will boost your ego all it needs with commments of "cool Job", "nice idea" etc.

So unless anyone else has anything pertinent to add we should just shut this thread down.