NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

Well, it's been a lengthy process but I thinks it's coming along well.





Rtek7 Stage 2.1 ECU Upgrade
(4) 720cc Injectors w/ new connectors
255lph fuel pump
BNR Stage 1 Hybrid Turbo w/ 30mm WG
SS Turbo Oil Feed Line
High Flow Intake
Custom TID
Blitz SS BOV
NGK A/Fx Wideband O2 Monitor
NGK Wires
Autometer Boost Gauge
Racing Beat Downpipe
3” Magnaflow Hi-Flow Cat to Dual Tips
Complete Emissions Block Off Kit w/Rats Nest Removal
Double Belted Alternator Pulley
Clutch Pilot Bearing and Bearing Seal
F1 Stage 2 Clutch and Heavy Duty Pressure Plate
J-Spec Transmission
J-Spec Clutch Type LSD
Short Shift Kit
Brake Master Cylinder
Slotted Rotors
Brake Pads
Newer Rear Axles
OEM Ball Joints
KYB AGX's
Racing Beat Lowering Springs
OEM Shock Mounts and Spring Seats
Mazdatrix Competition Differential Bushings
Mazdatrix Competition Motor Mounts
Atkin's Rotary Solid Thermal Pellet Upgrade
Front Main Seal
Rear Main Seal
Vacuum Spider
Coolant O-rings
Reconditioned LIM
LIM to Engine gasket
Fuel lines, injectors, grommets and o-rings
Oil metering pump lines
Thermostat
Thermo-wax Hose
Fuel lines w/ t-clamps
Reconditioned Throttle Body
Vacuum Lines and caps
Reconditioned UIM
Radiator Hoses
Battery Terminals
TCSportline Front Strut Brace
RX7 Sport Spoiler
SportMax 962’s w/ Kumho Ecsta ASX
Projector Styled 8000K HID's




I am still planning on the following:

Greddy Profec B Spec 2
Rear Camber Adjust Link
SS Oil Cooler Lines
SS Brake and Clutch Lines
Turbo Blanket

I also have a GP Sports kit but I am hesitant to have it installed, I like the stock lines so much.

Basically I was getting ready to buy the boost controller and turn the boost up to 10lbs. I was hoping you guys could point out any crucial mods I may have missed. Whats else would you do before increasing to 10psi with my setup??

I was thinking about turning the boost up slowly, maybe by a psi or so at a time and making small adjustments to the fuel maps with the Rtek 2.1. I am looking for advice on tuning, specifically using the Rtek2.1 to adjust fuel and timing for 10psi on a BNR Stg 1. Does anybdy have experience running a similar setup??

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Your mod list looks fine assuming you are positive that you have good fuel pump voltage. You should also pressure test for boost leaks even if you think you don't have any. You can make one out of home depot parts or buy one at www.boostpro.net/prodtester.html .

Are you doing AFM/load based timing or MAP based timing on the Rtek ? Convert to MAP-based timing, I'm pretty sure there are basemaps available on the Rtek sub forum. All the timing information floating around is MAP-based. Then at your target boost level set trailing split to 12, and leading advance to about 15 degrees (these are very common conservative settings), AFR's should be safe in the low to mid 11's on pump gas (93 octane at least) at that boost level. So throw fuel at it at first and lean it out to your target AFR as you tune it on the street.

You have no EGT gauge (and it's pretty hard to use one in a 1-man tuning operation unless you have a custom 0-5v analog EGT gauge which some FD guys run), so what I would do is keep the timing at what I just said until you get to the dyno. Then try to add a degree or two of timing and see if you pick up some HP. You might pick up power, you might not. Then try pulling two split (set split to 10). If you don't pick up any power from either timing change, just put it back to where it was. You can also try and play with your timing during spool to reduce lag, you can do around 20 degrees of advance before 5-6 psi.

There are mixed opinions on the Profec B spec 2 in terms of its ease of use and reliability, so make sure you do thorough research on it before you settle on this boost controller. When you are tuning the boost controller, each time you make an adjustment to the settings take a new datalog. You want to maximize the area under the rpm vs. boost curve with no boost dropoff or creep up top. Each pull you do while tuning the boost controller should be done in the same gear at the same mph (common sense really) so that your logs are comparable.

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

I'll make sure it's leak free, though I check the engine bay each and every drive for any leaks or drips or anything.

I actually have been putting off the fuel pump rewire, but that sure is a good one to do now.

I saw on the Digital Tuning site that the Map based timing was better for over 10psi, I thought I might stay with the Load based and go from there. I'll have to see if I can find some base maps for MAP mode. Okay, thanks for the heads up there..

I just picked the Profec cause it looked clean and was within limits for a EBC for me, I don' t really want a MBC, can you recommend another EBC??

Lastly where do you find this rpm vs boost curve you speak of?????

Thanks for all the great info man, I appreciate it a lot!!

arghx

iTrader: (3)

The fuel pump rewire is critical. I kept running out of fuel on my Supra pump because I had low fuel pump voltage due what I suspect was a bad resistor relay or something. So by 10psi AFR's kept leaning into 13's (dangerous!). Rewiring my fuel pump made me change my whole fuel map actually because my fuel pressure wasn't dropping and the injectors didn't have to work so hard. I say you pressure test for boost leaks because there are often a couple that are impossible to see. My IAT sensor was leaking boost, but you would have never known it. I only figured it out by pressurizing the intake with a pressure tester and spraying soapy water at my TB elbow (which bubbled up at the IAT sensor).


On the subject of boost controllers, a lot of people say the Profec-S (as opposed to the Spec II) is easier to get working properly. It's controlled by some ***** just like the older Profec B which I think was discontinued. Other boost controllers are the Greddy E-01 (expensive) Blitz SBD or whatever (also expensive), AVC-R (not too expensive anymore but some have trouble tuning it), and the AEM Tru Boost which has only been out for less than 2 years and is affordable. Just do some searches on the 2nd gen, 3rd gen, and single turbo forums and make your decision.

The reason I suggest MAP-based timing is this: every other engine management system for the Rx-7 does it that way. It's hard to compare your timing map to a guy with a Haltech, Microtech, etc if your timing is just mapped differently. Since it sounds like you are in trying to do this tuning yourself mostly, you should read a lot about other people's setups, so it would be advantageous to have your timing map configured in the same way as theirs. For example, you're not going to find substantial information about trailing split vs calculated load on the stock AFM, only split vs boost.

When I say rpm vs boost curve, that's just sort of a tuning concept. Just imagine a line graph with rpm on the X axis and boost on the Y axis:



It's kind of tricky to see because I don't have everything properly labeled and scaled, but if graphs 1, 2, and 3 all peak at 10 psi, which has more area under the curve? If you think about it, it's the first one, because it reaches 10psi and holds it to redline, where the second one reaches something like 7psi and then very slowly creeps to 10, while the third loses boost after reaching its 10psi target.

When you are tuning, you are going to be looking at a lot of logs of rpm, boost, AFR, and timing advance. It takes a little getting used to but you'll get comfortable with it. I had to figure all that crap out when I decided to tune my Power FC myself because I don't trust anybody locally.

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

I had done a lot of research prior to deciding on the Profec B and I think I might stick with it, we'll find out though in the near future.

I just made a request for a basemap for the MAP mode in the Rtek section. I'm going to look around and see if I can;t find anybody running a very similar setup and see what they have going on.

And that is literally what I was picturing in my head for the rpm vs boost curve, just a way to describe the way the turbo spools and holds boost. I have a nice ported WG now so hopefully creep will not be an issue.


How long should I be taking to do one pull for datalogging?? or maybe I mean how many adjustments are there in the fuel map? Like how many samples of data do I need to adjust the fuel maps??

Like this pic only shows like 6 second and 1000rpms of the whole tach range....but with 42 samples.



it seems as though it is running a bit lean already running only 5lbs boost. What would be the proper way to get a good complete log and make the needed adjustments.

I know I sound like a total noob here, but truth is that I am completely new to tuning and don't have any body else to learn this stuff from. I have been tryin to find out more but people don't really discuss tuning the Rteks in depth, or at least that i could find.

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

okay well the new fuel map is 14 x14 but what does this actually mean??

arghx

iTrader: (3)

On some level, tuning is tuning, but there are always a bunch of little important details about each type of engine management system and each setup.

I had an Rtek 1.7 , never a 2.x , but I read a lot about it so I have a good idea of how it works. The fuel map is a correction map, it's just a big spreadsheet really. On one axis is rpm and the other is calculated load (I'm not sure what units the ECU actually uses for this). At that given coordinate on the chart, you are telling the ECU to take its normal stock fuel calculation and enrich or lean it by some correction factor. You are not telling it exactly how much fuel to deliver, only making a % adjustment to the calculation that the stock ECU has already made. So you've gotta look through those logs (preferably line graphs, you may have to make one in Excel if the log viewer program can't do it), figure out what rpm and load points you need to modify, find the nearest cells on the fuel map, and start increasing the correction factor. If the correction map is 14 x 14 that means there are 14 points on the rpm axis (so like 1,500 rpm , 2000 rpm, etc with 14 possible breakpoints like that) and 14 possible load points, so like 100 units of airflow (look at the airflow column in your datalog), 200, 300, 400, whatever those units actually mean. so 14 * 14 = 196 cells in the map to adjust .

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

I understand what you have said so far, but I think the fuel table is set up with Boost and RPM like this-


Not trying to copyright infringe here, just trying to understand how to use this. I just went out and looked at my the tables in the actual 2.1 on my Palm trying to make sense out of it.

I think I'm beginning to understand what the table actually means, and how to apply the data from the logs. Just for laughs we could assume that I would need to add fuel in these cells-



Then do you just blend it into the rest if the map??


I would love to see some logs of other people cars and see what they did to their maps, I think it would help me if I saw it..

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I forgot that the fuel correction table is rpm vs boost. I figured it was RPM vs. load like the default timing map. This actually makes it easier. It is actually pretty unusual for a car to have both a pressure sensor and an airflow meter. Still, this is a glorified SAFC, and I mean that in a good way. It's pretty straightforward.

If it were me, I would richen entire rows at a time and then trim back fuel if you aren't happy with it. What makes this pretty easy is that the stock ECU already has a relatively smooth fuel curve. It steadily richens as load/boost increases--it may not richen enough to your liking, but the AFR's really aren't fluctuating too bad, and the 720/720 combo ensures a pretty good injector transition now that they have the stumble elimination fix. If it were me, I would take every cell in the 4 - 12 psi rows and richen them by 2 - 5 % . So richen almost the entire boost map by the same value. Then datalog it and see if you like how it behaves. If you only richen those cells you highlighted, you will probably have a less smooth curve actually. AFR's will fluctuate more. Work with one entire boost row at a time at first. Don't start fiddling with individual cells just yet. It's easy to overcorrect and make the car run worse before it runs better.

When you are running a standalone on a more radical setup (I have 720/1680 with higher base fuel pressure for example, with a large street port that significantly affects idle timing and low load driving) you really have to very tediously tune each cell and develop an AFR curve. The curve is already there in your case: most of the work has already been done by Mazda for you. You just need to tweak it. Broad changes like I described are the way to start. You are looking for a translational movement (to use the math term) to the curve initially--keep the fuel curve (and I'm talking AFR vs boost here) shaped the same, just change the final values. Remember that with an AFM the ECU can physically measure how much air is going into the intake, which is more precise than the guessing game you play with a full speed density system which has only a MAP sensor.

Take note that if your fuel pump isn't rewired and you haven't confirmed the absence of all boost leaks with a pressure tester you may have to retune the car again when you get that stuff taken care of.

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

Holy crap!! Thanks so much man. This is making so much more sense now. I was really confused but I can start to see the process working out.

Here's another question, if I am just looking to run 10psi with my setup and not break any records, would there be an option to keep the timing map stock??

arghx

iTrader: (3)

^ I think you could get away with it at least on 93 octane. But you're going to want to turn up the boost even more eventually, and at some point you should switch to MAP-based.

If you can, post a screenshot of the stock timing map (the load based one), both leading and trailing/split maps. I've never looked through it.

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

I only run 93 already so that's the plan.

I think I'm going to use the stock Load vs RPM timing maps for the first attempt at 10 psi and maybe go to MAP when the need arises for timing control above 10psi.

I will try to get you the stock Load based timing maps later today for your input on them

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

I haven't been able to find any screen shots of the timing stock maps, I was hoping someone would have these values in a spread sheet or jpeg or something where we could view the entire map instead of only a few cells at a time on the Palm.

Anyone???

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

The Rtek section here is practically dead, and the one at Digital Tuning is far worse.

Has anyone found any good resources for tuning the Rtek 2.1???

arghx

iTrader: (3)

go to the single turbo forum archive and read all the threads on AFR and timing, there are at least 4 of them.

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-faq-122/advancing-timing-high-rpm-101226/
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-faq-122/how-many-run-no-split-timing-325400/
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-faq-122/timing-afr-q-185564/

I've been reading, I really have been. I'm just reaching out to see Rtek specific resources.

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

Okay so I decided to make some fuel corrections based on some logs and our previous discussions. I enriched the whole fuel map above 2psi by + 2.1%.

I then took it out for a test drive and was pleasantly surprised to see the AFRs down closer to where they should be under boost.

Check it out, I have two screen shots of data and a screen shot of the log that shows both of those data sets, the 10-14second and 15-20second portions of the log.







It looks like it could still use a little more fuel in the 3,500 - 4,500 rpm range though. It's at least getting well into the 12's most of the time now.

Any suggestions or comments are welcome.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

12's during spool is ok, but I would want to be in the 11's by peak boost. The lean spot during 3500-4500 is most likely injector transitioning. You don't have much control over that with the Rtek, but you can try adding fuel in that range. Are you running the stock injector resistor pack?

NJGreenBudd

iTrader: (1)

I had heard that 12:1 was okay up until psi, but then again you hear a lot of stuff on here and I guess it's better safe than sorry. I'll check the Staging RPM for the secondaries but I am pretty sure I had it set to 3500, we'll try to enrich the general area though to keep it from leaning out.

Yes, I am running the resistor pack, what are you thinking about that??

Thanks again man!!

arghx

iTrader: (3)

On my Rtek 1.7 zero'd out on the SAFC I think my AFR's were in the mid to low 11's with 550/720. On stock ECU (with upgraded secondarys though) with no SAFC correction it just dumped a shitload of fuel in there, like 10.5:1 with black smoke coming out the back. I actually got pulled for the smoke one time...

the stock resistor pack is usually fine, it's around 6 ohms. That's what I run on my 720/1680 setup. Some people have had better luck with 3 - 6 ohm resistors vs the radioshack 10 ohm ones that most people install on 88+ cars . And other people swear that the 10 ohm resistors are fine with no problems. I guess it just depends on the setup.

Just play with the fuel map in that area and maybe even the staging rpm. Standalones have injector staging algorithms that you can mess with, but the Rtek really doesn't let you do that. And I don't think you can datalog primary injector pulsewidth vs. secondary injector pulsewidth to see what exactly is going on as the injectors are staging, but that's ok. Just work with what you have.