theory

iTrader: (5)

Well I've done my research and I've got my parts. I want to simply activate my 5/6 port actuators without rpm switches, air pumps and regulators.

This is the electrical schematic I've drawn:




The RTek uses pin 2N as an RPM triggered output. When the output is not activated, the output wire isn't connected to anything. When the output is activated, the output wire is grounded.

To not blow the ECU I've drawn in a relay between the solenoid and the ECU. This will keep the current flowing through the relay, while the completed ground from 2N switches it.

To keep with the theme of simple, I want to use this idea:



I know that picture has caused controversy in the past. But with the RTEK controlling the solenoid at 3800 rpm, and the solenoid controlling the air between the ACV and the actuators I believe it should work.

I'm not an electrical wiz, so, does my schematic seem right? Anythign else you guys see wrong?

Thanks guys!

YaNi

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like it will work, you just need to find the appropriate solenoids for the job. You will need some form of heat shielding for the solenoids as well.

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, it should work fine. I use a similar setup using 2 RPM switches to control my 6PI and VDI. Get an emissions solenoid (you can rob the one from the EGR valve), and mount it near the ACV. I have mine on a bracket on the passenger-side shock tower. I suggest welding a fitting on the air pump to supply air, but you can rig up something in the ACV dump hose too. The most important key will be sticking a restriction in the dump hose to retain pressure above 3500 RPM, since the large diameter of the hose will keep your setup from building enough pressure while the air dump is open.

HAILERS

I've been using a similar thing using the RTEK on my na, but I'll be damned if I'd tap into the outlet of the ACV. I tap into the hose b/t the airpump and the ACV for a reliable source of air pressure.

I use a common RX solenoid located on the right fender area and it gets powered from the black/white wire of the green TPS check connector. The gnd for the solenoid comes from the wire on the EGR solenoid that gets a gnd from the ECU/RTEK.

Sorry, I just drilled a hole into the air hose b/t the ACV and airpump that was smaller than the barbed fitting I shoved into it. It's yet to *blow out*. Not enough pressure to do that.

In short, you don't need a relay of any sort. Just a common RX solenoid configured right, and the wire from the EGR going to it and a source of switched power, like the power coming off the green TPS check connector.

theory

iTrader: (5)

The RTek manual warns that this output can only handle 500mA, I wasn't sure how much the solenoids take and figured I'd throw in a relay just to make sure.

I think the main air pump hose will be a better idea after all and will be just as easy to tap into.

So, Hailers, did you wire the GND for the output/EGR straight to the 6PI solenoid? Or did you just literally tap into the gnd AT the EGR solenoid still on the car?

I was originally planing on going straight from the ECU to the solenoid, but that may be easier to tap into with less soldering/wire work.

HAILERS

Uhhhh. The output of the EGR on a normal car goes to.........................a common RX solenoid. You know. The ones with the Blue, Yellow, Orange, Green plugs on them.

The additon of a relay is what would not be normal for that output of the EGR to go to.

Your missing part of the idea here. The OUTPUT of the EGR wire at the ECU (2N) is a ground output (the Blue/White wire). All the solenoids whether Relief, Switching, EGR, FPR have one wire on them that is a constant 12vdc. It's the other wire on those plugs that triggers the solenoid, by putting a ground on those solenoids.

The wire at 2N of the ECU is......Blue/White on a series four.

So what you do, is take a solenoid like the EGR one, and use it to pass airpump air from the airpump outlet hose...........through the solenoid........ to the small nipple that actuates the aux ports. No relay required, no relay desired.

Fact is the EGR solenoid is configured as you need it. But a solenoid configured as the Relief solenoid is not as you need it configured. Go look at the two in your car and you'll see the rubber hose on different nipples on the two.

So use your present EGR solenoid. You can move it to the other side of the car or leave it in place. The problem with leaving it in place, is that you have to run two vacuum hose from that side of the engine to the other side of the engine. It's easier to move the solenod and just lengthen one wire (blue/white) to reach the other side of the right hand of the car.

theory

iTrader: (5)

Understood.

I wasn't sure on current draw and thought that it might help. But I can see now it's not necessary since the ECU already controls these solenoids the same way it needs to function for this.

Understood.

Understood.


I now understand how to operate the system. The thing I wasn't thinking about was EGR control. I should have realised that by using the 2N output, that the EGR solenoid will no longer funtion as intended. I guess this is much simpler then originally thought.

So by taking the output & solenoid away, this now means the only next thing to do is to remove the EGR?

HAILERS

No real need to remove the EGR. It will just sit there not doing anything. Harmless piece of metal. You don't even have to cap its vacuum line off.

You could even leave the EGR solenoid in place. Just remove the two vacuum lines that now go to it, and plug the line that does NOT go to the EGR valve. That would be the one that has vacuum on it when the engine is idling. Just remove the vacuum line that went to the EGR from the solenoid altogether.

Then get two new, long pieces of vacuum line. One to each port on the EGR solenoid. One will go to the pickoff you made on the airpumps output line and the other new vacuum line to the metal line that goes to the aux ports. I not sure how ungainly that would work out, what with two new pieces of vacuum line running from the left to the right side of the engine. Probably not that outrageous.

theory

iTrader: (5)

Thanks. I still haven't been able to rid my hesitation or cold start problem, not sure why, but at least I'll have working 5/6 ports for the first time since I've owned the car! (The last of many things I've been working on)

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I really wish they had an Rtek 2.1 back in the day when I was modding my s4 n/a. I would've put the stock airpump back on and done it this way. I found the 12V pumps just weren't reliable, not if you pushed the car really hard at Deal's Gap or something like that.

HAILERS

Actually, the EGR solenoid is Not configured as you want it. You want to make it look like the Switching solenoid. Switching solenoid is the one with the Grey elect plug on it.

To configure your EGR to look like the Switching solenoid, just pull the round filter off it and place it as shown in the attached jpg. If you break the filter, no worry. Just forget the filter and leave the port open to open air. Not a factor.

If your removing hose off the solenoids that are old and don't want to come off, it's best to use a razor blade to cut or slit them at the plastic nipple so you don't break the plastic nipple on the solenoid.

walken

iTrader: (6)

if you still have the stock air pump that picture you posted is the best way to do it. nothing to wire and your water pump is less likely to slip at high rpm. if done like said they will work flawlessly and removing the air pump doesn't even free 1 horse power.

HAILERS

Except there is no need for a relay at all. All he needs, is the stock solenoid from the EGR.

walken

iTrader: (6)

I was talking about doing without electronics. using the ACV exhaust for pressure instead of the split air pipe and cat.

theory

iTrader: (5)

So people can follow along in the future:

Setting up the EGR solenoid like the switching solenoid in your post will only allow air to flow from the air pump hose, through the solenoid, to the actuators when the solenoid gets grounded from pin 2N on the RTek ECU.

HAILERS

Yep. The rest of the time, that small amount of airpump air will go out the filter on the solenoid.

All the solenoids are the same item, some just have their Filter on a different nipple. All Mazda does to reconfigure them is to pull the filter off and put it on the other plastic nipple.

2N has been operating a solenoid for a couple of decades now and the only difference is now it'll gnd that solenoid at any rpm you select on the RTEK.

I'm even tempted to move my solenoid back to the original EGR position and run two new vacuum hose over to the right side. I bet it won't look as cumbersome as I originally thought. Then again, it works fine where it is now, and I'm lazy.

FYI: Casey Stoner just smoked the field on MotoGP qualifying. Yeee haaaah.

theory

iTrader: (5)

I'm just going to leave it in the stock position and run two lines. I will take pics and post this weekend hopefully.

HAILERS

******Yep. The rest of the time, that small amount of airpump air will go out the filter on the solenoid.*****************************

Opps. Wrong. The air in the line to the aux actuators will be bleed off thru the filter, when the solenoid isn't energized, not the line carrying air from the airpump.

theory

iTrader: (5)

BTW, did you experiment with opening points on your NA? Did you find a better point then 3800? I've read a little higher is better.

HAILERS

Nothing high tech or worth talking about. I've got 'em opening at four grand for about a year or more.

theory

iTrader: (5)

Success! Somewhat...

Well I set the RTek. Poked a hole in the air pump hose, pushed in my barbed vacuum connector. Attached the hoses from and to my solenoid.

Epoxied the vacuum hose connector in the air pump hose.

Waited until set. Started the car. and the process works great.

Not done yet though. I'm not sure if it's the sleeves or the actuators, but only 1 opens and it doesn't look like it even opens that much. I'm leaning towards the actuators as the motor was rebuilt a year ago and the sleeves "should" be ok.

I have good acuators and new gaskets here right now. So I will replace those tomorrow as it seems pretty darn easy to replace those and hopefully both open tomorrow.

I kept the egr solenoid in it's normal position and I think it really doesn't look bad at all with 2 hoses routed nicely to/from the solenoid.

I will take pics tomorrow once I've achieved 100% success.

P.S. Just to not have any confusion, I tested the way the air should flow through the solenoid when it is activated and when it is off. I ended up using a solenoid configured how the EGR is normally configured. ( I didn't use my EGR as I had a nice clean solenoid lying around, but I set it up the same way the old EGR was set up)

In other words, is there a reason I should have set up the solenoid like the switching solenoid you mentioned above?

HAILERS

My bad. Make it look like the EGR. That way when not energized air goes out the filter. Energize it and the air goes to the aux actuators.

If in doubt about the actuators themselves, run the line directly from the airpump outlet line to the nipple that feeds the aux actuators. They should go full down/operate fully and stay there until the air is removed.

See jpg: *A*comes from the airpump outlet hose. *B* goes to the nipple that feeds the aux actuators. Just double checked with my car, something I shoulda done long ago on this thread.

theory

iTrader: (5)

Pictures as promised.

Now back outside to check the actuators.

theory

iTrader: (5)

Well I swapped out the actuators. Both ports move equally the same by hand. BUT when the solenoid activates the rear actuator is the only one that moves. I'm not sure why both won't move? Maybe the way I installed the hose connector in the air pump line isn't seeing enough pressure?

My question is, for the time being until I can now solve this problem, having only one port open, could this cause any damage to the motor?

HAILERS

There should be about three times as much pressure coming out the airpump outlet hose compared to the pressure that came from the exhaust when it was new. That's my humble opinion.

I can't explain the front one not pulling in and the rear on pulling in.

When you say both ports move equally by hand, do you mean all the linkage is on them and your pushing down on the lever on each. And each actuator moves down the same amount? Or are you talking having the actuators off and moving the rod going into the manifold by hand and each moves equally?

Well, there's a pipe that goes from one actuator to the other. It has banjo bolts attaching it. Is it on? Banjo bolts on good?

Have you tried to just run a hose from the airpump outlet hose directly to the nipple that feeds the aux actuators, and with the engine running, seen if they both pull in?

What I did, was get a plastic barbed union from the auto store. I drilled a hole in the airpump outlet hose that was just a bit smaller than the barbed union. I shoved the union in the airpump hose. Even though I put some RTV around the union, the thing works fine without the RTV around the union.

Anyway, try the deal with running a hose from the airpump outlet hose directly to the aux port feed nipple.