When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Be sure to ask the new builder if he will fully (parts and labor) warranty a turbo engine with a larger turbo running 3 times the stock boost levels that cracks a rear iron but was not installed, broken in, or tuned by him. I am eager to hear that response, word for word.
That said, I do think the email received and the very wordy and defense post smells a bit like fish.
Sorry, I'm not buying it. Sounds like you, the driver and owner of your car and this engine, caused the damage. I was cool with everything you posted aside from the line above I quoted.
Way, way too many variables on a modified turbo rotary, especially running that much boost. You want to play, you've got to pay. Something went wrong. I absolutely recommend you add a water injection system (AEM makes a nice one) to your list of mods. **** happens, and you just found that out.
The builder's absolutely not to blame here, and to infer otherwise is pretty lousy of you.
On another note, what is your new builder telling you upon teardown of the mode of failure?
Already did, he's pretty up front with everything. Doesn't warranty any of his builds.
Honestly I don't doubt that it was, like said. I haven't pushed any blame. Maybe a little more in these later posts, but mostly because I feel like defending myself a bit.
It very well could have been from high psi. But right off the bat, despite a fairly chill email from me, the blame was thrown right at me without cause.
I deal with alot of troops in my job. And one thing I've learned is what fault dodging looks like. Whether in the wrong or not, its always someone else's fault.
Ive actually been thinking of doing the water meth for a bit. Just never jumped in. One of my really good buddies had been running it for a bit.
Anywho, talked to a guy with near new housings in Kansas city. $700 total, been modded a bit. Gotta talk to Jesse and see if he thinks they will work. Fingers crossed.
Now hardtard question, was looking at racing beat, and their rebuild kit costs 1500ish. And then on Atkins rotary they have a kit for 500, lot A. Kit B and C are a grand more. What's the difference? Do I need the master kit or is that if you have absolutely no seals??
20 psi on pump gas, 12:1 AFR's and no AI?
Definitely not an issue with the engine build.
"fuel never dropped below
12.0 afr under boost"
As in never anything like: 12.1, 12.2, 12.3, 12.4, 12.5..... So on
Things like: 11.9, 11.8, 11.7, 11.6..... So on
Again, not and hasn't been a fault vote or a blame game.
Anyone who wants to be a bandwagon jumping, high horse, soft hearted, troll mongering, sizzle d**k, internet gangster can procceed to the nearest exit to f**koffville.
I'm going to agree with what is posted . You need to get water/alcohol injection. Your problem is not your afr. It's your fuel quality (octane rating). You either need to run AI or switch to a higher octane fuel. Your problem was more then likely cause by knock / detonation.
I'm going to agree with what is posted . You need to get water/alcohol injection. Your problem is not your afr. It's your fuel quality (octane rating). You either need to run AI or switch to a higher octane fuel. Your problem was more then likely cause by knock / detonation.
That sucks if so, tried to do alot to reduce the chance of that :/ retarded the timing a bit, bypassed the the coolant line going to the TB and ran ducting up to the air filter to drop intake temps. Not sure the 91 octane on post is that phenomenal either lol
Pretty sure army get 90% recycled everything from the air force hah.
Idk, guess I had in my mind that 91 was pretty bueno and that 100 and up was for crazy big builds.
Just read through the first post and Kev's. I'm going to side with Kev here. He's been doing this **** for awhile.
If you are running an S4, you are limited to the power it will make due to the rear iron. The S5s have the rear dowel and pedestal reinforced. From the mods you have , you have put enormous stress on the rear iron.
A short story...while dyno tuning an S4TII with Haltech, 62-1 etc...through all runs were checked double checked. Increased boost little by little while making sure EVERYTHING was fine. Lots of fuel, timing good, A/F good hit rw410 ...all good numbers then bam...oil squirted all over the place. First thought busted oil line and upon inspection oil was seeping out at the rear. ...cracked rear iron. In picture attached, right at 1 o'clock. See picture of S5? Reinforced area...right at 1 o'clock. This is WITH fine tuning on the dyno. It's not Kev's build. There are a lot variables that could have happened. One thing for sure is engine should have been slowly broken no matter what especially if new apex seals were installed. Nobody is going to warranty a modded car. If Kev was near by and popped your hood, he would've walked away.
Kev's been around a long time and so have I...seen a lot of **** that went to blame the build.
I'm sure the build was fine or else you would have seen oil on startup. Imagine 60+ psi oil pressure...you will see oil from the slightest crack.
If the engine you are rebuilding is an S4, you will encounter the same . It's like a time bomb. It will happen at some time.
As you may already know, S5TII rear iron has reinforced bar near pedestal and wider dowel area. That will be an option for you. My constructive thought.
S5TII rear has a limit as well but it won't crack at 410 rwhp.
That sucks if so, tried to do alot to reduce the chance of that :/ retarded the timing a bit, bypassed the the coolant line going to the TB and ran ducting up to the air filter to drop intake temps. Not sure the 91 octane on post is that phenomenal either lol
Pretty sure army get 90% recycled everything from the air force hah.
Idk, guess I had in my mind that 91 was pretty bueno and that 100 and up was for crazy big builds.
So you were running 18 to 20 psi on pump fuel (91 octane at that!) and you're trying to point the blame at your builder? Unbelievable. Water Injection would have done much more for you than all of the things you attempted.
Time to take a deep breath, look in the mirror, acknowledge that you're completely to blame, and take this as a learning experience
Holy ****! Your right I shouldn't be blaming anyone. Gosh, my only regret is not saying I'm not blaming anyone multiple times sooner. What was I thinking?? -_-
Ok, for the learning impaired, I Brendan Shields aka r.o.d, am NOT, opposite of is, blaming anyone.
Edit: Read back through. 4, four times I said not blaming anyone and went back all the way through the top and haven't blamed anyone. If I did it would read something like "these ****** ***** fucked my ****** engine. Luise, get me a beer."
So go to your local general store. Buy a big bag of dicks, and eat to your hearts content, and get off my back.
"As you may already know, S5TII rear iron has reinforced bar near pedestal and wider dowel area. That will be an option for you. My constructive thought.
S5TII rear has a limit as well but it won't crack at 410 rwhp."
Didn't know that about the s5s, definitely gonna have to look into that!
Didn't know about the s4 being particularly weak there. Glad I know now.
So how much longer past this recommended break-in time should an engine really go?
I'm not sure that you are understanding what we are trying to tell you. It has nothing to do with break-in time for seals and compression friction surfaces. It has to do with physically twisting and breaking a cast component due to your level of modification. IT would have happened after not many full boost runs whether you had 5 break in miles of 50,000. Felix Wankel himself could stack that block but as long as it has a non-reinforced rear iron on there it is going to break doing what you are doing with it.
I could have told you that before you ever bought the engine, had you told me you were running a highly modded set up making north of 400rwhp. I would have said "hey man this is basically a stock early block and they are known to be weak at high power levels, it's not going to last long at all in that kind of environment unless the tune and setup are just perfect and you are running race fuel constantly...you should look into letting me do a custom build for you with thick casting front and rear iron housings."
Early S5 irons have the same size landing as the S4, so just asking for S5 will not get you what you need. You should also get front and rear, since the front iron will be the next to go.
Look at the upper dowel pin landing diameters, these are both S5, but the second picture is a new rear.
I gotcha. Misread the post above, was reading and getting ready for work. How much do reinforced irons go for?
You think I'm making more than 400? . Not gonna lie kinda proud of that lol. I had been guessing 300ish
Gonna call Atkins to see what the kit differences are. Will report back with info
The only surefire way to get them is to buy them new from mazda, which is around $500 each. Sometimes you see them pop up used...sometimes the seller knows what they are selling, sometimes they don't. IF they don't, you might get it for $100-200. If they are like me and they do, they might get $250-350.
The differences are covered in the link I sent you about rear iron breaks, and linked above in my quote, BTW.
ROD, you got a little antsy a few posts ago, but nobody was attacking you.
I don't do rotary rebuilds but I work, and have worked in, the automotive industry for over 10 years. I warranty my workmanship for the lifetime you own the vehicle. On the actual parts and product, you get the manufacturer warranty and I'll take care of that for you. If I personally some how **** up on my work I pay for it out of pocket. I don't offer that kind of warranty because my workmanship is junk. If a customer brings me their own stuff, sure, I'll make it happen and you get the same warranty on the installation, but nothing on the parts/product.
RE and others are generous to be honest, I would never ever warranty something that a customer installed themselves at all. Sounds like the builder of your new engine is just like me.
After a long phone call to the new builder, found out most of the parts were very worn, still in spec but more towards the bad end. "I've never seen an oil pump this worn, definitely shouldn't have been used.". The fail was in the rear iron, most likely because of me making a guesstimated 400+. Definitely my fault there. I am buying new housings this weekend and dropping them off on the way back. Canabullizing the old engine for the other to get everything safely within spec. Probably me that caused the final bedshit, but kinda wish I would've gone with Jesse first and given him my old engine and not jumping on the first good looking rebuild I found. Would've had to only rebuild one and not one and a half. Gonna turn the boost way down and start slow and smooth. Already swapped the 15lbs spring in the wastgate for a 5lbs. Also going to retard the timing a bit more. Maybe eventually I'll do a s5 set of irons, but after all of this I don't have much play money left.
You ran the engine dry of oil getting it back to your house, what do you expect the oil pump and other various parts to look like? Next time you have a serious leak either it be oil or coolant do not attempt to drive it home.
02-15-16, 09:47 PM
. Not gonna lie kinda proud of that lol. I had been guessing 300ish
