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I bought an engine from rotary resurrection in September that was rebuilt and cleaned up nicely.
Threw it in, and had minor issue (user error) finally got the car running golden.
Went from a cruise to Topeka from Fort Riley. When I got back home I noticed an oil leak.
thought no big deal and went hunting. Turns out it leaking right next to the coolant temp sending unit, where the rear housing and the rear plate meet.
from what I can gather its more than likely a dowel o-ring.
its definitely not the oil filter plate or the oil psi sending unit, I can see it seeping at idle from the line where housing meets plate.
now I'm screwed, I don't know it that's even something they would cover, and even if the did how I would ship it to them.
I don't know if its my fault, bad rebuild or bad luck. Or if this is something I can fix (but voiding warranty) and if I would have to get all new seals or just a seal for the dowel.
P**P!! kinda venting, and kinda looking for advice. they don't even have a number to call and ask, just a dang email.
wonder if I should just yank this one now and save for a better or what??
send them a PM on here, they have an account, and ask what they would for you. Dowel pin o-ring leak is common, but its also possible there was a hairline crack in the rear iron they missed. You never know until you contact them. Just keep your cool, as frustrating as it is, ANYONE will be more willing to help out with a cool temper versus a pissed temper. I've been in customer service for over 10 years, when I'm treated nicely, I go the extra mile to do the same as well
Ya I sent them and email, I told them the known facts and even told them that up till this point the engine had been fantastic and was really happy with it. told them that any advice would be awesome. Just sucks man, that thing was running great. I had been showing it off like honor roll kid, big smiles and all lol. good news, my wife just said we can use the tax return we were gonna use to get her a new car on this. kinda feel bad, but since I'm the bread winner... and its for my rex I'm ok being a little selfish hah
Welp. Went from seep to shitting itself way fast. Could get it home fast enough, stopped and put two quarts in and in 2 miles it dumped it all and then started to seize as I was pulling up to my house may be posting a want add here soon for a motor if prather racing in Topeka doesn't have anything I'm actually really super bummed
I have never done one, and I don't want my daily rocket to be done by a hardtard (me lol). Want it to be reliable. I'm fairly sure it is due to the location it was coming from. And especially because it started as a seep, partially ripped oring to a puke, blown out oring.
if its the rear plate then its quite easy, you only have to remove the rear plate i think.
thats what i'm afraid most also, the oil leaks on my rebuild.
if its the rear plate then its quite easy, you only have to remove the rear plate i think.
thats what i'm afraid most also, the oil leaks on my rebuild.
The problem is when you break tension on the other seals by taking out the tension bolts to get that plate off. Really, you should replace the soft seals at that point while it's apart. A soft seal kit from Atkins is $160 - includes all the o-rings, coolant seals and all that jazz.
Super easy to do.
Things I learned:
- When you unstack it all, keep all your rotor seals in labeled baggies and mark the rotor with a sharpie to keep an eye on what corner or side they came out of - Rotor 1 (which would be the front one), Front, Corner 1, Corner 2, Corner 3, Side 1, Side 2, Side 3 for example.
You'll see my markings on the rotor in white marker in this pic.
My advice: Get the chapter on engine disassembly/reassembly from the FSM, get a Engine O-ring kit from Atkins, watch Aaron Cake's video on doing the engine, and give it a try.
And if you started puking oil, i doubt its a dowel rod oring
If the engine started to seize as he pulled into his driveway like he said, many of the internals would be not reusable. A used engine would be the most economical solution.
Oh yea! Not playing around.
Got that out in about 10 hours total.
Finally got an email from the original builder.
Message basically said its your fault, and we won't cover it. And to think I was nice lol
I thought about doing it myself...
But I feel safer having someone else do it.
Dropped off the first tii that a housing warped a bit and the potentially seized one
Hoping between the two there's something good left.
Oh.. And I dropped it off at the wrong place hah. Messaged the new builder of the drop and sent him that picture.
He quickly text me back letting me know I was at the wrong shop lol.
Here's a video. Hard to tell it. But definitely coming from in between the housing and rear iron. I would dry the area, start it and I could see it seeping out.
Doubt any warranty will happen if you kept driving it til it seized with an oil leak.
And that depends on how much of a a hole you wanted to turn into, if it was a oring or rear iron crack they missed, it would be their fault for the engine seizing in the first place......but of course his for not keeping an eye on his oil
Kinda hard when driving
I checked it often once it was found.
Filled as needed, but it was like a flood gate opened when it let loose.
Nothing I could do baring running a hose to the filler and mouth feeding it, with a case of oil.
Originally Posted by lduley
And that depends on how much of a a hole you wanted to turn into, if it was a oring or rear iron crack they missed, it would be their fault for the engine seizing in the first place......but of course his for not keeping an eye on his oil
And that depends on how much of a a hole you wanted to turn into, if it was a oring or rear iron crack they missed, it would be their fault for the engine seizing in the first place......but of course his for not keeping an eye on his oil
Double edged swords
I ment that had he waited to hear back about it when it was just a leak he was much more likely to have it fixed than when he choose to continue driving knowing there was an issue and cost the entire engine. No one would warranty it at that point.
I really don't check this forum often at this point but knowing how these things often work out, something told me I should come and check just to be sure of what might be said about this, and sure enough here it is.
I know these situations often reflect badly on the builder, and all the information is not always presented up front. Just to clear up any misconceptions, I did build this engine last summer and it was shipped 8-26-15. I dont know for sure how long it took the buyer to install it and get it running, as I did not hear anything from him until now. But, one can assume it was installed fairly soon after purchase and has been running ever since. The owner's statements seem to back this up, without the benefit of any other more direct statements. Then I received this message:
Originally Posted by R.O.D on 2-10-16
Hey Kevin,
Not sure if you remember talking to me. Recently changed email addresses. I purchased a rebuilt engine from you guys. I have the invoice that I can send pictures of. Issue is the engine at idle is seeping oil from the upper left hand side. I thought maybe the oil psi sending unit or the oil filter plate but both are dry. Got a closer look and it seems to be coming from between the rear housing and rear plate, next to the coolant temp sensor. I don't know if this is something that is covered or not. Also not even sure how to ship it to you. Any info is really appreciated! Also if it means anything, I've been super happy with the engine it was running fantastic up to this point.
I have never reused a dowel pin o-ring in any rebuild and I know that they never fail in the 86+ engines so in my mind I know that can not be the cause of the issue. That really only leaves one thing, a cracked rear iron. So, here was my reply:
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection 2-13-16
,
The only seal between the rear iron and rear rotor housing is an o-ring around the upper dowel pin. Those are all installed new and if you look back on the CD of build pictures you will be able to see the o-ring in the last rotor housing picture before the rear iron goes on. A leak from that o-ring would come from the area at the top corner of the rotor housing, where it says "mazda".
Aside from that the only real way I know of that you can have a leak in that area is to have a crack in the iron housing adjacent to an oil passage. This can happen from overtightening the oil pressure sending unit which is a tapered thread and isn't meant to go in all the way, but I've only seen that once, and if memory serves I had sent the engine out with the sensor installed already.
Usually that will result in a significant, obvious crack that oil pours out of. I guess it is possible to have a very small crack that only leaks a tiny amount, but it would be unusual. It's a long-known weakness of the 87-88 non-reinforced style rear iron casting especially when the engine is modified with a full exhaust and intake and running higher boost than stock.
We can also go back and look at the build pics for pics of the rear iron and look for cracks there.
Since you have had the engine for a few months (driving it I assume) and did not mention the leak when you first installed it, and the build pics show no issues with the rear iron or the dowel pin o-ring in the rotor housing, I have to assume it was not there when built. And you state above that it was "running fantastic up to this point" which suggests that it just cracked and began leaking. I would not consider a crack in a casting that was not present when built to be a warranty issue or assembly error. IT is more of a tuning issue than anything and any builder you check with will tell you that a cracked rear iron is the result of a tuning issue with a modded turbo II and not a builder assembly issue unless it was there from first startup. I cracked one myself a long time ago on a 13bt built with 9.4 rotors running 10psi on a stock ECU. It ran perfectly until it lost a bit of power, started to overheat and started smoking from the oil leak pouring out the back of the engine block.
IF you want to give me more info we can talk more about it. It would honestly be hard to say anything for sure about the issue without removing the rear iron and checking the dowel pin o-ring and the iron housing itself for cracks. Even if it is not a warranty repair, I could still likely repair it very reasonably for you without having to do a full teardown and rebuild (and associated break in etc.).
Kevin
Here are the pictures of the build discussed above.
The dowel pin oring:
The rear iron:
As you can see there are no cracks in the rear iron and the dowel pin orings were new and correctly installed in it's groove in the rotor housing.
Those of us who know about these engines know that if an engine is built with a rear iron that is cracked, it is going to leak oil from day 1 when it is first fired up. Apparently that didnt happen on this one, it didnt leak for a few months after it was running.
Another thing we know is that the iron won't crack during normal use. Tens of thousands of turbo IIs lived 100k miles or more with the original rear iron and they never cracked. The only ones that crack are on modified cars that are overboosted and detonated, twisting the engine and cracking the rear iron.
Let's look at it this way. Mazda manufactured this iron housing. If you buy a new rear iron from mazda and you build an engine with it and go out and crack the iron, if you take it back to mazda and tell them the part failed and should be warrantied, they are not going to go along with it are they?
Now ask yourself, if mazda themselves would not "warranty" a cast part that was cracked, should an engine builder be expected to become responsible for that same part which they did not even manufacture?
Also, it's worth noting that R.O.D. had removed the engine, communicated with another builder, and dropped it off at their location, and posted pics of it in post 13 above ( https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati.../#post12026904 ) apparently at the same time if not before I had sent my reply above stating that I did not believe it was a warranty repair issue (I sent that message 2-13-16 at 2:29PM EST). So in my mind that leads me to believe he also knew the same thing.
I am eager to hear more opinions on the matter in light of this new, more detailed information. Of course I always feel bad about these situations but at the same time looking back on it I cannot see anything that I could or should have done better. :-(
Last edited by RotaryResurrection; 02-14-16 at 11:14 PM.
I didn't pay enough attention to everything to see it was a turbod engine. I agree with you now RE that there isn't enough information on what he had on the engine. Larger exhaust with a stock wastegate and it creeped? Alot of variables here we don't know
550 primary 750 secondary
350 aeromotive fuel pump
Tomie high psi regulator
Rtek 2.1
Aem WB
60-1 .82 ar ex. 3" oulet
Full 3" exhaust no cats
38mm emusa wastegate
Hks avcr
Modded and ported TB
GReddy comp tube
Mishimoto intercooler
FAL black magic efan
Boost was set to 18- and never crept
Past 20psi, and fuel never dropped below
12.0 afr under boost
Same set up I had in the engine before.
The one I bought from eBay for $2,000 and beat the hell out of for
6 years and was never nice to.
And the only reason it failed was because I was in college, poor and ran too long on an oil change. With this engine I followed the recommended break in procedure. Changed oil after break in and codled till break in was complete. After the initial 1000 mile break in. I increased boost 5psi every 200 miles. Stopping at 18psi. Everything worked great, like amazing.
until a hard drive to Topeka from fort Riley. And rest of the story is up top.
I decided to take it to them because they were closer, hour and 45 min drive. I knew only the labor was warrantied by RR, so decided to go with closer proximity. And based on the new builders finds, I'm happy to pay the 2000 plus parts.
This thread was never a directed blame to anyone. In fact I know I said "I don't know if its my fault, bad build, or bad luck". Did I express a bit of agitation in my first post? Yup,sho did. My engine just ****. Don't think anyone would be ecstatic about it.
That said, I do think the email received and the very wordy and defense post smells a bit like fish.
02-10-16, 08:47 PM
may be posting a want add here soon for a motor if prather racing in Topeka doesn't have anything 
