2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992) 1986-1992 Discussion including performance modifications and technical support sections.

5.57 mpg... Wtf?

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Old 12-06-11 | 09:07 PM
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You can't drive around with the TPS disconnected either. The ECU thinks you are at WOT all the time.

The 2.22 is the max boost reading for the 3 bar.
Old 12-06-11 | 09:18 PM
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Maybe I had the TPS wires connected incorrectly. There was no plug when I got the car. I assume the previous owner just connected all of the wires and taped them up. That's how I found it. On the TPS pigtail, there is the black/red? wire, the green/red?, and the reddish wire. The harness side is green, yellow, and red. What plugs into what?
Old 12-06-11 | 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dwb87
Maybe I had the TPS wires connected incorrectly. There was no plug when I got the car. I assume the previous owner just connected all of the wires and taped them up. That's how I found it. On the TPS pigtail, there is the black/red? wire, the green/red?, and the reddish wire. The harness side is green, yellow, and red. What plugs into what?
Green/Red (TPS pigtail) is the output signal from the TPS. B/R (pigtail) is ground and the last wire is Vref. The wire on the harness side that has 5 volts w/key to on is the Vref output signal from the ECU so that would go to what you refer to as the Red wire though it should actually be Brown on the TPS pigtail unless it's another aftermarket sensor being used.
Old 12-06-11 | 09:30 PM
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I suggest you download a factory service manual, because it sounds like your wiring is hacked all over your engine. The EMS is only going to run as well as the information it receives from the sensors.
Old 12-06-11 | 09:43 PM
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I have an FSM... At this moment I am just trying to figure out the color of the wires I should have connected to the BAC.
Old 12-06-11 | 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dwb87
I have an FSM... At this moment I am just trying to figure out the color of the wires I should have connected to the BAC.
One wire feeding the BAC should have battery voltage w/key to on and at start while the other will have close to battery voltage that is reduced w/key to start (drops down to just a couple of volts or so).
Old 12-06-11 | 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by satch
One wire feeding the BAC should have battery voltage w/key to on and at start while the other will have close to battery voltage that is reduced w/key to start (drops down to just a couple of volts or so).
Alright. And what color is the second wire you're referring to? Would it be the color of the BAC pin at the ECU?
Old 12-06-11 | 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dwb87
Alright. And what color is the second wire you're referring to?
If you're referring to the wire in the factory Emission harness it would be Blue/Green (pin 2Q).
Old 12-06-11 | 10:32 PM
  #34  
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leaky injectors or shot o2 sensor just my 2 cents
Old 12-06-11 | 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 89s5fc3s
leaky injectors or shot o2 sensor just my 2 cents
Nope. A bad O2 sensor doesn't dump this much fuel.

Anyway, I cannot find this Blue/Green wire. It is blue with a green stripe? I've seen quite a few different blue wires, and all I see are different colored stripes other than green. Perhaps I am looking at the plug at the ECU wrong... But 2Q seems to be Brown/White...
Old 12-06-11 | 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dwb87
Nope. A bad O2 sensor doesn't dump this much fuel.

Anyway, I cannot find this Blue/Green wire. It is blue with a green stripe? I've seen quite a few different blue wires, and all I see are different colored stripes other than green. Perhaps I am looking at the plug at the ECU wrong... But 2Q seems to be Brown/White...
I'm using the 88 wiring schematic. The color code for 86 wiring can differ. As suggested, the voltage on pin 2Q goes from 12 volts to a small amount when starting the car and then rises back higher but not to 12 volts. W/the car running and the A/C turned on the voltage drops some more. Turn the lights on and it drops a wee bit more.

I just looked at my 86 and it appears to be Blue and no stripe.
Old 12-06-11 | 10:59 PM
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Just checked my 87 FSM... L/G would be Blue/Green. Which is weird, because I see an all blue wire with what seems to be green painted marks, but it looks to me as if it is pin 2A. :-/

So, this L/G wire will have absolutely no voltage with key to on? Only on start-up...
Old 12-06-11 | 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dwb87
Just checked my 87 FSM... L/G would be Blue/Green. Which is weird, because I see an all blue wire with what seems to be green painted marks, but it looks to me as if it is pin 2A. :-/

So, this L/G wire will have absolutely no voltage with key to on? Only on start-up...
Pin 2A is Vref and feeds the AFM, Pressure sensor, TPS, ATP, and Variable Resistor so it would have 5 volts w/key to on at all of these sensors.

Pin 2Q. Not 100% sure what it would be w/key to on but I would suspect battery voltage. Doing a continuity test will help to identify the wiring.

EDIT: When looking at the back of the plug, 2A is upper right while pin 2Q is upper left position.
Old 12-06-11 | 11:15 PM
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Found it! That green stripe is REALLY hard to see on that blue. Now, I will wire up the BAC correctly... Then move on the the MAP sensor and TPS issues.
Old 12-07-11 | 01:23 PM
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Another SIMPLE suggestion. Prime the fuel pump and check the pressure! If you don't have a gauge on your aftermarket regulator, get one. It should hold a decent amount for a while. If an injector was stuck open it would drop immediately. How does your OIL look? Does it smell like gas?
Old 12-07-11 | 01:31 PM
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My fuel pressure is fine. I do have a gauge on the FPR. The oil does smell a little bit like gas...
Old 12-07-11 | 01:55 PM
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running with 6:1 AFR will do that, heh.
Old 12-07-11 | 02:00 PM
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My biggest problem right now is the -615 mm Hg that the commander is displaying with key to "ON"... I've almost come to the conclusion that my Power FC is fucked.
Old 12-07-11 | 02:11 PM
  #44  
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but when you disconnect the BAC valve it goes down back near normal still? if so either you have a hacked up harness someone patched up or at a bend in the harness some of the insulation on the wires cracked off and 2 wires are crossing. in this case likely your BAC wire and your MAP sensor signal wire.

disconnect the BAC and see what it reads, if it drops, start the car drive it, do whatever. better to not have a BAC temporarily than a car that runs like ****.
Old 12-07-11 | 02:33 PM
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Alright. I actually had the wrong wire hooked up before to the BAC... I fixed this problem last night. It is a Brown/White wire that the MAP sensor and TPS share. The BAC is now properly wired. (B/W and L/G) - Crazy thing is... The BAC would actually work with that Brown/White wire and Black/White wire hooked up...

Just unplugged the BAC and turned key to "ON"... Same -615 mm Hg reading. :-/

EDIT: That Br/W wire goes to the V ref pin. (2A)
Old 12-07-11 | 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dwb87
Alright. I actually had the wrong wire hooked up before to the BAC... I fixed this problem last night. It is a Brown/White wire that the MAP sensor and TPS share. The BAC is now properly wired. (B/W and L/G) - Crazy thing is... The BAC would actually work with that Brown/White wire and Black/White wire hooked up...

Just unplugged the BAC and turned key to "ON"... Same -615 mm Hg reading. :-/

EDIT: That Br/W wire goes to the V ref pin. (2A)
The wire besides the B/W wire hooked to the BAC controls the duty cycle of the BAC so as to dictate how much unmetered air is injected into the throttle body. If the voltage was high on this wire the BAC injects very little air and if it were very low it would inject as much as it can. In your case it was low enough in voltage (5 volts) that it was injecting a decent amount of air.

EDIT:You might want to place a ground to one of the terminals at the BAC and battery voltage to the other terminal and see if the BAC clicks and be careful so as to not make contact with one terminal with both wires by accident. "Maybe" your BAC is stuck open from always having the same voltage running to it.
Old 12-07-11 | 02:53 PM
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Yes. Is was sucking in TONS of air before. You could hear it from the inside of the car. Now... It is properly wired. But my car will not start now. Especially because the ECU thinks I am seeing -615 mm Hg vacuum.
Old 12-07-11 | 03:05 PM
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If you were backfeeding 12v into the 5v ref signal with the incorrect BAC wiring, you could have fried the map sensor or the 5V section of the PFC.

What does the VTA1 & VTA2 read now?

What is your PIM voltage? Based off your vacuum reading I will guess it is somewhere near 0v. Unplug the map sensor and see if it jumps to 4.99v, if it does then it is most likely just a fried map sensor.

Last edited by Banzai-Racing; 12-07-11 at 03:09 PM.
Old 12-07-11 | 03:26 PM
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am i the only one having a hard time believing your car ever ran right?

what's better, a $50 harness or a $1000 power fc? decisions decisions

at any rate, for anyone reading this, this is why you shouldn't screw with wiring unless you know what you're doing and have a wiring diagram in front of you.

dwb, just go find a used harness somewhere. series 4 turbo or non they aren't that hard to find in unhacked condition.

Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 12-07-11 at 03:31 PM.
Old 12-07-11 | 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Karack
am i the only one having a hard time believing your car ever ran right?

what's better, a $50 harness or a $1000 power fc? decisions decisions

at any rate, for anyone reading this, this is why you shouldn't screw with wiring unless you know what you're doing and have a wiring diagram in front of you.

dwb, just go find a used harness somewhere. series 4 turbo or non they aren't that hard to find in unhacked condition.
I gots no monies!

I never said my car has ever ran right. lol - It ran decent enough for me to move from Illinois to Washington. To be honest, my car has always ran like a turd... It's been a five year work in progress. :-/

Banzai, will do.



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