3mm Rotor Milling
3mm Rotor Milling
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01-28-02, 12:49 PM
#11
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oops didnt mean to post yet.
take a needle and rub it across something big and metal. it will elave a scratch. now take a ball bearing (both objects have a rounded surface at the end, one is just microscopic) no scratch.
this is a extreme example but it is the same principle. and yes there will be more friction but not enough to make a difference in heat which is the only area it will really matter
take a needle and rub it across something big and metal. it will elave a scratch. now take a ball bearing (both objects have a rounded surface at the end, one is just microscopic) no scratch.
this is a extreme example but it is the same principle. and yes there will be more friction but not enough to make a difference in heat which is the only area it will really matter
01-28-02, 12:54 PM
#12
I Raise Chickens
Originally posted by RX-7Impreza
oops didnt mean to post yet.
take a needle and rub it across something big and metal. it will elave a scratch. now take a ball bearing (both objects have a rounded surface at the end, one is just microscopic) no scratch.
this is a extreme example but it is the same principle. and yes there will be more friction but not enough to make a difference in heat which is the only area it will really matter
oops didnt mean to post yet.
take a needle and rub it across something big and metal. it will elave a scratch. now take a ball bearing (both objects have a rounded surface at the end, one is just microscopic) no scratch.
this is a extreme example but it is the same principle. and yes there will be more friction but not enough to make a difference in heat which is the only area it will really matter
sorry, but your wrong. They DO wear out the rotor housings faster. This is *fact*. Believe it or not, Mykl and I arent trying to fool you guys. =]
01-28-02, 12:59 PM
#13
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Originally posted by RX-7Impreza
oops didnt mean to post yet.
take a needle and rub it across something big and metal. it will elave a scratch. now take a ball bearing (both objects have a rounded surface at the end, one is just microscopic) no scratch.
this is a extreme example but it is the same principle. and yes there will be more friction but not enough to make a difference in heat which is the only area it will really matter
oops didnt mean to post yet.
take a needle and rub it across something big and metal. it will elave a scratch. now take a ball bearing (both objects have a rounded surface at the end, one is just microscopic) no scratch.
this is a extreme example but it is the same principle. and yes there will be more friction but not enough to make a difference in heat which is the only area it will really matter
01-28-02, 08:57 PM
#14
Rotary Freak
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Originally posted by RX-7Impreza
3mm seals better
Justin
3mm seals better
Justin
01-28-02, 09:01 PM
#15
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Oversized saves the cost of worn rotor replacement
Faster break-in on rebuilds
Robust construction
Larger corner piece
easier assembly
better sealing
better on damaged housing
more reliable
straight from Hurley
Justin
Faster break-in on rebuilds
Robust construction
Larger corner piece
easier assembly
better sealing
better on damaged housing
more reliable
straight from Hurley
Justin
01-28-02, 09:23 PM
#16
mad scientist
Hurley seals are made of a softer material than Mazda seals. That is why they have less wear, and are generally nicer to rotor housings. You cant compare two different materials AND sizes of seals at the same time. Mazda 2mm seals wear the rotor housing less than Mazda 3mm, and Hurley 2mm seals wear the rotor housing less than Hurley 3 mm. But since the Hurley seals are softer than Mazda ones, even their 3mm wears the rotor housing less than a 2mm Mazda one.
01-28-02, 09:42 PM
#17
I wish I was driving!
Originally posted by RX-7Impreza
more surface area means that the pressure, firction, force, etc are spreadout over a larger area of the rotor housing
more surface area means that the pressure, firction, force, etc are spreadout over a larger area of the rotor housing
Force of friction = u (coeffiecient of friction) x Force normal
The normal force is caused by the spring.
the coefficient of friction is caused by the two materials rubbing together. If two apex seals are made from the same material, this means the same coefficient.
Surface area has nothing to do with wear or friction. It does not spread out force, but the force of friction does not change.
The only difference would be the extra weight of the 3mm seals. This would cause more centrifugal force, and thus the force normal would become increased, but only at higher revs. This increase would be most negligable.
But no, you're all wrong, surface area has nothing to do with the friction or the wear on a surface. Try it yourself. Drag a book on its end across a table, then drag it laying falt. The force of pull would be the same.
Sean Cathcart
This goes for tires too. Surface area has no effect on traction.
01-29-02, 04:52 PM
#19
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Don't forget about the rotational inertia of the seal on the rotor housing. The 2mm seal is going to weigh less than the 3mm seal. When the engine is spinning at higher rpms the heavier seal of the two will exerting more force(insert appropiate equation here) on the rotor housing. The mass of the seal also comes into play but that is above my head and I don't feel like typing and then back spacing becuase it sounds stupid.
01-29-02, 04:57 PM
#20
I wish I was driving!
Originally posted by FPrep2ndGenRX7
Don't forget about the rotational inertia of the seal on the rotor housing. The 2mm seal is going to weigh less than the 3mm seal. When the engine is spinning at higher rpms the heavier seal of the two will exerting more force(insert appropiate equation here) on the rotor housing. The mass of the seal also comes into play but that is above my head and I don't feel like typing and then back spacing becuase it sounds stupid.
Don't forget about the rotational inertia of the seal on the rotor housing. The 2mm seal is going to weigh less than the 3mm seal. When the engine is spinning at higher rpms the heavier seal of the two will exerting more force(insert appropiate equation here) on the rotor housing. The mass of the seal also comes into play but that is above my head and I don't feel like typing and then back spacing becuase it sounds stupid.
It is almost negligible at such a small mass.
01-29-02, 05:05 PM
#21
I wish I was driving!
Originally posted by GTUsGUY
scathcart,
can you explain yourself better in the last exmple.
scathcart,
can you explain yourself better in the last exmple.
Bigger surface area equalling more frction is a huge misconception. With tires, you get more grip usually from getting a softer stickier tires. Wider tires them selves do not create any more friction. Alright, so now you're all calling me an idiot for saying that your car will hook and corner just as well with tiny tires, and why would racing cars ever run slicks? True, with just that phrase, I am an idiot.
Here's the deal:
No road is the same. When you get down to it, it is rougher in some spots and smoother in the others. With bigger tires, you have a much more likely chance of hitting those rougher spots. The rougher spots have a higher coefficient of friction between the tire and the road, and thus the friction increases. So yes, you'd feel a huge difference upgrading from a 2 inch tires to a thirty inch tire. The bigger tire would more than likely hit the rougher spots on the road. Try driving on a uniform surface (sand paper) You'll get the same traction no matter what you got bolted on.
Big time racers run huge slicks mostly for the force(gravity) they put down. That's also why they fill 'em with water.
So no, you would get no more friction going from a 255 to a 275 tire, except maybe that the 275 woud weigh more.
Sean Cathcart
01-29-02, 05:43 PM
#22
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Originally posted by scathcart
Yeah, centrifugal force. I mentioned that. It is almost negligible at such a small mass.
Yeah, centrifugal force. I mentioned that.
It is almost negligible at such a small mass.
Just being picky. centrifigal force doesnt exist. its called centripetal force.
Justin
01-29-02, 05:57 PM
#23
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Originally posted by scathcart
The tires? You bet.
Bigger surface area equalling more frction is a huge misconception. With tires, you get more grip usually from getting a softer stickier tires. Wider tires them selves do not create any more friction. Alright, so now you're all calling me an idiot for saying that your car will hook and corner just as well with tiny tires, and why would racing cars ever run slicks? True, with just that phrase, I am an idiot.
Here's the deal:
No road is the same. When you get down to it, it is rougher in some spots and smoother in the others. With bigger tires, you have a much more likely chance of hitting those rougher spots. The rougher spots have a higher coefficient of friction between the tire and the road, and thus the friction increases. So yes, you'd feel a huge difference upgrading from a 2 inch tires to a thirty inch tire. The bigger tire would more than likely hit the rougher spots on the road. Try driving on a uniform surface (sand paper) You'll get the same traction no matter what you got bolted on.
Big time racers run huge slicks mostly for the force(gravity) they put down. That's also why they fill 'em with water.
So no, you would get no more friction going from a 255 to a 275 tire, except maybe that the 275 woud weigh more.
Sean Cathcart
The tires? You bet.
Bigger surface area equalling more frction is a huge misconception. With tires, you get more grip usually from getting a softer stickier tires. Wider tires them selves do not create any more friction. Alright, so now you're all calling me an idiot for saying that your car will hook and corner just as well with tiny tires, and why would racing cars ever run slicks? True, with just that phrase, I am an idiot.
Here's the deal:
No road is the same. When you get down to it, it is rougher in some spots and smoother in the others. With bigger tires, you have a much more likely chance of hitting those rougher spots. The rougher spots have a higher coefficient of friction between the tire and the road, and thus the friction increases. So yes, you'd feel a huge difference upgrading from a 2 inch tires to a thirty inch tire. The bigger tire would more than likely hit the rougher spots on the road. Try driving on a uniform surface (sand paper) You'll get the same traction no matter what you got bolted on.
Big time racers run huge slicks mostly for the force(gravity) they put down. That's also why they fill 'em with water.
So no, you would get no more friction going from a 255 to a 275 tire, except maybe that the 275 woud weigh more.
Sean Cathcart
ok i have to call you an idiot for that whole thing. that statement is making my head hurt. i dont even know how to explain this to you because i dont think you will understand.
my best example comes from velcro. take two sides of 1 inch square velcro and try and drag them across each other. it may take a litle work but you will eventually pull them apart.
now take a 1 foot square piece and try and pull it apart from the sides. not even the incredible hulk can do that. because there is more surface area there is more surface that grabs
01-29-02, 06:00 PM
#24
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oh yeah, i knew i was wrong with that whole needle ball bearing thing. i was thinking of dragging a seal across lengthways and i realized that as soon as i posted (sorry
)
i know someone will try to argue with my last post so lets hear it
Justin
)i know someone will try to argue with my last post so lets hear it
Justin
01-29-02, 06:15 PM
#25
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TRUTHS
I figure 3mm are better than 2mm. Saying that 2mm seals are inferior is also untrue. The whole point of 3mm is to save costs in replacing the rotor also it is also slightly more resistant to failure. I put Hurley 3mm apex seals into my engine, did I need to? No. However with my modifications any safety factor that I can put into the engine I will gladly do so. 3mm to me is just icing on the cake "Glad it's there, sure tastes good!"