musicman3x

I am looking to do an engine swap for my '87 N/A. I am going to want to make it a TT and upgrade the internals eventually and was wondering if it would be better to get the mounts and do a 13b-rew swap or just the 13b T2 swap?
I know that before the twin turboing part I can get a T2 for a lot cheaper.

I am wondering from a performance and cost stand point what would be better?
Is a 13b-rew actually a better motor?

Thanks,
Matt

WhoDiddy6

iTrader: (9)

13B-RE is cheaper and more powerfull than a REW!

Trav

You'll probably want to do some more research on the twin turbo thought. Not trying to convince you not to do it, HOWEVER, many folks have considered, researched, and even tried this. I think that you might decide that the complexity is not worth the effort to make it work properly. Opinions will vary, but you're not necessarily gaining any more horsepower because you have 2 turbos. And if you want better spool, then you'll be wanting to keep the turbos sequential, which makes the system that much more complex.

Again, not trying to talk you out of it, but I would VERY STRONGLY recommend you do your research first. But, WhoDiddy6's suggestion is good -- the 13bRE is a nice alternative and should be a little easier (cheaper) than putting the 13bREW into the FC. It comes with stock twins, but most folks abandon those for a nice sized single. I think you'll find the potential with a nice sized single to be as good or better than twins and it simplifies the setup CONSIDERABLY.

Anyway, my 2 cents -- but if you're on a budget, you need to stick with a T2 motor. Don't even think about the RE or the REW if you are concerned about saving money in the long run. I think the RE is a cool swap though -- that's what I'm doing.

FC3S Murray

iTrader: (7)

Only difference besides different turbo's is the REW has bigger ports and lighter rotors then the T2. Also lighter flywheel factory. smae engine just REW more refined.

t-too

I dont know for sure, but it looks like youre implying that the TII is a TT... You might want to do a bit more research before you do anything if you think a TII is a twin turbo. If i had the money, I would get a 13bre because theyre supposed to be so much easier and cheaper/less impossible to put in an FC. If you plan to rebuild it, you could make the TII just as fast as you want with porting and a better turbo.

NZConvertible

Actually a lot of the FD's extra power did come from the two turbos, which can flow quite a bit more than the FC's single turbo. A 28% improvement is hardly insignificant.

Here's how to do it, including a link detailing all the improvements made to the 13B-REW engine (and there were a lot)...

http://fc3spro.com/TECH/SWAP/FD3S/rew.html

RylAssassin

The 13b-REW is the FD motor and if you talk to or go into the FD section youll see like 80% of FD owners get rid of the twin turbos and go single.

musicman3x

I am going to keep the engine TT or make the T2 TT so i can make the turbos two different sizes and try to get more constant power. The nice part about the rew engine is that it already has good internals. so the less i will need to buy. I also don't want to do want others are doing and i don't mind if it gives me a lot of hard work. I will be doing all the work needed so i will not need to pay some one to do it.

and no, i know a T2 is not a TT.
Thanks for all the info.
Matt

arghx

iTrader: (3)

If you think it's a good idea to put in an REW because it's "less to buy" for a given power level you've overlooked all the custom bullshit you're going to have to go through. Get an S4 T2 motor rebuilt with s5 internals and a hybrid BNR turbo and some kind of standalone. That will make as much power as you need. You're being overambitious here.

Don't you think that people post on here regularly with the same plans? How many people have successfully swapped an REW vs. just talking about it?

FC3S Murray

iTrader: (7)

no, i was saying besides different turbos (T2 single/REW TT) and yes the TT is a 28% increase but this dude wants to SAVE money, get a hybrid for a T2 and you will match an REW's power(of course with proper fuel managment).

Go with a 13bt for saving some dough and that engine isn't slow, I have 330 RWHP on my S5 13bt with a hybrid/ports and a piggy back. About 3000 grand total in the car, less then what a REW would cost ya. My 2 cents

FC3S Murray

iTrader: (7)

You have a lot of work ahead if you are planning on making the T2 a TT, going to be a major HEADACHE.

snowball

you realize the average cost to swap in a REW is nearly $10,000
you should just get a 20B if your thinking about a REW it will cost the same pretty much

13B-RE is TT and is a much easier swap since their are mount kits for it.

FC3S Murray

iTrader: (7)

20B's are fun, buddy of mine has one in his FD. the acceleration is amazing, like going into light speed when he goes full throttle.

lupin

iTrader: (3)

Go for the 13b re and then go with whatever tt setup you want. It will be a lot faster than going all out with the 13brew.

we can throw ideas at you all day, have you decided on what you are going to do?

Trav

Understood, but that wasn't necessarily my point. Point was, you're not going to have massively more horsepower simply because you have 2 turbos instead of just 1. In other words, that's not the ONLY consideration. But yes, in the case of the stock 13bT compared to the stock 13bREW, the twin turbos were a major factor in the HP bump.

Good link btw...

To the OP: Bottom line, there are a lot of options out there and I think (as you've seen) there are a lot of differing opinions. Do your research, and if you plan on doing an REW or an RE swap, plan on a large budget. And I think a lot of folks would agree that the budget for the REW swap is potentially bigger than that for an RE.

Juiceh

iTrader: (4)

There was a thread about this about a month ago. Apparently someone does make a mounting kit for the REW engine for the FC. So theres a large portion of the costs cut out right there. Finding the mounts may be a little chore though.

Goofy

And also in that thread one of our resident gurus (AaronCake, I think) pointed out that mounting an REW into an FC stresses the engine mounts in a direction they were not designed for.

BoostedRex

Or you could use an S5 intermediate iron with the rest of an REW motor and have it be "almost" a direct bolt in.

Jesuscookies

iTrader: (1)

If you are looking for options the 13BRE motor may be a better choice. You can get a set of motor mounts for under $100. The swap is alot easier than the 13BREW.

musicman3x

Reading all your responses I have decided to go with the 13b T2 engine.
Does it matter if i get a S5 engine or not if i am going to rebuild the internals with better parts any way?

'87 turbo II

iTrader: (1)

go 13bRE (no W) from the JDM cosmo. It makes more power, apparnetly whodiddy says it costs less and I have met him and he has a ported RE) This engine has twin turbos that are not sequintial but make alot of power and fits and bolts right into the FC unlike the 13b-REW which needs much modification to fit. It has better internals than a 13bt from a TII which seems like what you want from the 13b-REW so you'd have better internals, more power, and better instal if you go 13b-RE.

'87 turbo II

iTrader: (1)

well IF you go that way get an S5. It has lighter rotors, better housings, and a revised ECU (I've heard you can use an S4 ECU which is less problematic but doesn't work as well). I'd still go 13b-RE though.

NZConvertible

But we're not talking about twin-turbos in general; we're talking specifically about a single-turbo 13BT vs. a twin-turbo 13B-REW. The engine does make a lot more power in stock form because of the turbos. Details aside, if you replace a stock 13BT with a stock 13B-REW to will have a lot more power.

No, the two correct ways of doing it properly are explain in the link I posted. You're thinking of one particular case where it was done the wrong way.

You can't use an FC intermediate iron in an FD engine for the same reason you can bolt a FD LIM onto an FC engine. The port angle at the manifold/engine interface is completely different.

Actually the JC 2-rotor engine is called a 13B-REW just like the FD's. The "W" denotes twin turbos. "13B RE" is just what it says on top of the manifold, it's not the engine's full designation.

In stock form it makes less power than the FD 13B-REW and the turbos are sequential.

So much misinformation...

Trav

Agreed.



Yes, as NZ mentioned also, the 13b-RE IS in fact a twin sequential turbo motor in stock form. And in stock form makes less power than the 13b REW (in stock form). Most of the time though, folks will convert it to non-sequential operation or go single. In fact I'm not even sure if you can control the sequential operation without the Cosmo ECU?? And the Cosmo was auto, so I don't know if you'd even want to go down that path.

Also for what it's worth, I've heard mention of folks making the 13b RE operate on a regular T2 ECU -- can't confirm or deny this personally because I'm going with a Microtech. My assumption would be that's in nonsequential twin or single turbo mode though. But you may want to factor that into your equations as to whether you'd go standalone or not when selecting the 13b RE.

As mentioned, it's a cool swap (IMO), just a lot more to consider as compared to just a 13bT swap. Just a lot of factors to decide on...

musicman3x

I change my previous statment. I think i am going to got with the 13B-RE.
Can anyone recomend any good places to buy the parts for the swap and a link to the info for doing the swap.
Thanks for all the info, i have learned a lot from it.
Matt