Its another one!

 

on what engine? stock... HELL no. you will NEED to have it balenced and milled down for clearance.

 

WTF I had the crap on here I really dislike the bugs on this stupid forum. Anyways heres what I was going to say

13b S5 with Big Big streetport and turbo oil pump and some pre-mixing as well as omp.
And cryo treated 3piece apex sealz.

8500 is safe for stock car sooo 10k should be good for this stuff rigth as far as APEX CHATTER and Oil Starvation

Im talking about 1/4 racing not road racing. And I expect the engine to last only 25k miles with no problems. ??

 

No.

 

why not cryotreat the the eshaft while your at it, are you gona have power at 10k?

 

no, your rotors need to be milled and an array of other things as well, but i know u gotta get them rotors milled.

 

You need the extra clearance since the eccentric shaft starts to flex at really high rpms. Another option is the 2 piece Guru Racing eccentric shaft that allows for a center bearing. With this you don't need to worry about extra clearance since the center bearing doesn't let the shaft flex in the center. You would still need to use better bearings. On top of this you would need to design the intake and exhaust around this rpm range. Don't forget to use a transmission scatter shield in the event of a flywheel breakup. Mazdatrix has a 2nd gen racecar that they have taken up to 10000 rpm. There is video of it on their website on the dyno. That engine is essentially stock since their racing class rules don't allow for any significant internal mods. It can be done but what is the reasoning for it? Are you going to build a race engine? If it is for a streetcar there is really no need. The big thing is going to be how often do you want to rev that high and for how long at a time.

 

I stated earlier that I wanted to only run 1/4miles at this rpm Its not a street car its my weekend racer and show car.

I want 20k out of the engine with this big streetported engine. I plan on 200rwp or more at 9500 rpms but can take it to 10 im sure. mabey we will see later.

I dont know whats the deal with this e shaft and rotor miling thing. You mentioned that mazdatrix does it so why cant I??? what will hapen if I dont do the milling and crytreating or whatever of shaft??? let me know so I can tell my meckanic. But I garantee he will probly say ohh thier just being paranoid. Remember i want the engine to last 25k its not a street car but I will be driving it on the street every weekend probly 100 miels a week then a few runz on the strip.

 

The reason people mill the sides of the rotors is to increase the clearance between the rotor and the housings. This is to allow for the small amount that the eccentric shaft flexes at high rpms. Since there is only a bearing at the front and rear of the engine with nothing to support the center of the shaft, it tends to flex slightly. This flex will cause the rotors to physically come into contact with the side housings. With the center bearing on the Guru racing eccentric shaft this flex is next to nothing if not nothing at all. No need to reclearance the rotors now. Your stock bearings on the second gen are also not good enough to sustain high rpm use. They may work for a little while but a deeper grooved bearing or a 3 window style is recommended. Mazdatrix's engine isn't going to last 25K miles. The thing about cryo treating is that it makes metal really really hard and strong. First the pieces are heated up really hot then they ae slowly cooled down to a few hundred degrees below zero. This removes any small imperfections in the metal. There is no such thing as being paranoid when it comes to safety. Thats what we have setbelts and rollcages for. If you are running a stock intake manifold, you are not going to have a usable powerband this high, regardless of how you ported it. Intake runner length and exhaust play a huge role in this. Also a stock transmission isn't geared around a powerband this high. Again guru racing offers a tranny that is designed to be shifted at 9500 rpm's. Their stuff is not cheap but it is done properly. I'm not telling you not to do it. I'd love to take my engine up to 10000 rpm. You have to remember that the factory put a redline on the car for a reason. If it was safe to take a stock engine up there then the rev limiter would take this into account. You don't need 9500 rpm's to get 200 rwhp on a streetport n/a. Its quite easy. The reason people are having a hard time reaching it is due to the fact that they are using a stock ecu or bandaid piggyback computer that still restricts incoming air through an air flow meter. The stock ecu was also designed to tune for a little more than half that amount of rwhp. An s-afc can help this to a point but is still not perfect. Get a properly designed intake manifold or at the very least a standalone ecu on it and it will be very easily. This would be the safer route. Be paranoid! Everything will work better if you are.

 

the rotor will STRIKE the housings HARD and you will spit the side seals early as well as scar the housings, you also need to remove the oil metering ball's and replace them with a jet.

 

You're motor builder should be the one who's dealing with this. Not the forum. Who's doing your motor anyways? CJ

 

No offence, but usually the only reason people want to rev to 10 is **** value. Any street port is going to peak well before then. Even big bridgeports don't need to be revved this high. If you think you're going to have a porting/intake/exhaust combo that will still be making power that high then talk to an engine builder about what you'll need and how much it will cost. Make sure you're sitting down when he tells you how much...

 

Adn the reason that M-trix would rev that motor so high is so that they can have some over-rev capability (its a road race car). That way they don't have to shift so often.

 

Yes, we are running the E/Production engine to 10k -
Do NOT try this at home, experienced (not PRO, since it's amateur racing) driver on closed course.

The SCCA rules dictate "street port" 6-port engine (meaning not bridge), so the ports are VERY large.

With VERY large ports, and absurd port timing, you get an engine that ONLY works at VERY high revs. That is why the exhaust is single, and large. -- but the dyno said it still wanted fairly small primary pipes.
Sooo - everything had to be done to attempt keeping it together that high.
Off the top of my head:
VERY lightened rotors (STARTING with lightest ones)
side cut rotors
ceramic apex seals
hardened gears
competition rotor bearings
3-window rear bearing
93 style front bearing
oil shooters in the eccentric modified
oil passages "flowed"
oil pump massaged
3 lb flywheel (yes, three)
lightened counter weights
5 1/2" double disc clutch
MSD 7AL's
Mallory coils
VERY balanced assembly
competition thrust bearings
2 oil coolers
HUGE radiator
52 mm IDA carb
very short manifold
it liked a VERY long exhaust
smallest eccentric pulley
largest water pump pulley and alternator pulley
restrictor in water hose

+ other stuff?

AND it STILL scrares the crap out of me everytime I see 10k on the tach !!

Dave Lemon
http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/epconv.htm

 

wow...

 

Very nice Dave. Don't forget to tell the kids what a set-up like that will cost them.

 

ummmm...10K? Might just be me but...ummm...dumb idea of the day...why? There's nothing at 10K what would be the point? Just to watch the needle move?

 

Are you really going to try another motor??? If so, I would recommend something that wont kill you when it fails...

 

and back from the dead....

 

If just occational beating stock parts are fine, just give it a lot of oil pressure. My J bridge peaked at 9,300rpm so I don't see why for any reason you would spin to 10k except for conditions like miss shift or road racing situation.

 

My stock vert loses power at about 6700-7000, I usually get bored before I hit redline.

 

So you're saying that as long as I give the oil pressure a bump up, I can Breifly take my stock rotors, apex seals and e-shaft upto 9500rpm?

 

I disagree, My setup was still making power strait up the dyno chart.. I mean 0 drop off at 8,900 rpm's where I had my Ignition & dyno set to cut off. I think I still need to tinker with somthing though, cause my boost was not even peaking untill 7k ish.

 

the flywheel will could turn into a circular saw and take your legs at the knee. I know of a couple of carbed 12a streetports that hit 10000rpms when in the hands of abusive drivers, but you really need some serious injectors to feed a 13b n/a at those rpms. im sure it would work..... but for how long. ahah

 

I agree, you had better have the world's best scattershield.