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Might not be news but just had valvoline tech support say they have discontinued the vr-1 20w50 globally due to low demand. Thought that was sad news for some. Personally I just use the valvoline 20w50 XLD Premium but my fc is stock as a rock. Their customer support are wicked to deal with. Was asking about the zinc and phosphorus ppm in the XLD as it’s not listed on the data sheet and they replied so quickly, then asked about the VR-1 availability in NZ and had the explanation in about 2mins.
can’t find directly comparative data, hard to believe they’re going to run those ppm levels on a standard oil, the VR1 was listed as both racing and street-able, being good for ethanol use as well and I haven’t seen anything stating same for XLD. It appears they’re going to keep the VR1 straight weight oil line; 40W, 50W, 60W etc.
I suppose we may need to send a sample in for testing …
can’t find directly comparative data, hard to believe they’re going to run those ppm levels on a standard oil, the VR1 was listed as both racing and street-able, being good for ethanol use as well and I haven’t seen anything stating same for XLD. It appears they’re going to keep the VR1 straight weight oil line; 40W, 50W, 60W etc.
I suppose we may need to send a sample in for testing …. .
yeah no info on their data sheet for the zddp level in the xld premium, that’s why I emailed them and got that response. What’s wrong with those levels? Was comparable to Castro gtx and slightly lower than Penrite hpr30. I asked about vr1 availability in NZ as cannot get the 20w50 and this is why.
^^ that’s why I questioned the high zinc level in the replacement 20W50 oil; it can eventually take out a cat converter wrt emission function and likely more so on one that burns engine oil intentionally like a Wankel …
but at least the HKS is a metallic cat converter and is more likely to possibly being cleaned/recovered to some degree if it does go off on emissions.
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Who cares about ZDDP for rotaries? That and other extreme anti-wear additives are needed if you have flat tappet camshafts.
I'm more concerned about low ash content, to prevent carbon buildup on the rotors and in the seal grooves, which is why modern Diesel oils are really compelling. Ash is the enemy of modern Diesel emissions controls and the newer Diesel oils are specifically made to create low ash. I'm a fan of the Motorcraft oil, because it's cheap and Ford really, really doesn't want to have to deal with DPF issues under warranty on their trucks.
I always thought ZDDP was essential for side/corner/apex seal and stationary + rotor gear lubrication... Is it not?
no, its so the v8 guys don't flatten the cam in the first 15 minutes the engine runs.
allow me to explain, the typical OHV American style V8 engine is really weird. one of the things that is weird is that it only uses one cam for all the lifters.
the lifters have to be small, and then when you add the Rube Goldberg linkage, the load on the cam is very high. a Chevy v8 lifter is ~21mm in diameter, and a Miata is ~32mm, its WAY bigger
this is why V8 guys NEED to replace the cam and lifters when the engine is apart, and why they get all weird about breaking it in.
i would point out that any other piston engine, you don't need to change the cam when its being built.
the tradeoff is that the center of gravity of the engine is lower, and the OHV v8 is usually smaller, DOHC heads are big
the rotary doesn't have anything like this at all, its also got HUGE bearings. would it hurt? no of course not.
Hmm, I even add a bottle of ZDDP Plus at every oil change 😂
Somewhere I read the rotary's seals and gears benefit from it 🤷🏻♂️
That was my understanding, well for stationary gears and e-shaft more than anything. I would rather have that small fail safe with the high metal to metal contact areas of a rotary rather than worry about killing a catalytic converter prematurely. We don’t even have emissions testing in NZ. So cat can be gone if need be.
I always thought ZDDP was essential for side/corner/apex seal and stationary + rotor gear lubrication... Is it not?
No, it isn't. There's no places of high point-load friction anywhere in a rotary, unless you are putting corner seal springs in your engine that have 500lb of tension on them. Even that would not be as bad as in a pushrod engine with flat tappets, because a corner seal has much, much more surface area contact than a lifter has on a cam lobe. Lifters are convex on the bottom, and the cam lobes are tapered slightly, so the end result is a contact area smaller than the rubber piece INSIDE a corner seal.... and they will have sliding friction working against 1.5:1 to 1.7:1 rocker arms against valve springs that may be 120lb on the seat and 300lb over the nose. (Roller cams have a lot more spring than flat tappet, because roller lifters are heavier, and you do NOT want to float the valvetrain with a roller lifter because that usually beats the roller out of the lifter and then all the money falls out of your bank account)
You have to work very, very hard to have oil related issues in a rotary that could be traced to a composition fault.
Who cares about ZDDP for rotaries? That and other extreme anti-wear additives are needed if you have flat tappet camshafts.
I'm more concerned about low ash content, to prevent carbon buildup on the rotors and in the seal grooves, which is why modern Diesel oils are really compelling. Ash is the enemy of modern Diesel emissions controls and the newer Diesel oils are specifically made to create low ash. I'm a fan of the Motorcraft oil, because it's cheap and Ford really, really doesn't want to have to deal with DPF issues under warranty on their trucks.
I just switched to Shell Rotella and Even though I think somewhere I read diesel oils have more ZDDP or zinc than passenger car oils, ZDDP content didn't even cross my mind in my reasoning to switch. It was all about the 15w-40 weight. I have ran Havoline 10w-40 for years, Castrol before that and I just thought that starting with the 15 base weight would be better since it takes less viscosity modifiers to get the 40 rating of the second number. I don't really want to run a 20w-50 oil because I'm lazy and don't want to switch oil weights for the winter since it does get below freezing here and I think I noticed a 1 to 2mpg fuel mileage increase when I stopped using 20w-50. What you say about ash content makes me think I've made a good choice.
I do run 15W40 now because in the summer with the A/C on my oil pressure drops frightfully low. I saw 50psi at 4000rpm one summer day while driving through WV in my 12A powered car with 15W40 so I don't dare go thinner. (With the tiny old 13" tall radiator that has 43 years of crap in it because nobody makes a brass shorty radiator anymore and rules don't let me use a radiator lighter than stock)
me too, and sometimes it went to the track and sometimes when other people drove it the tach would be pegged at 8k, and you could hear it still revving
Rotaries are incredibly tough engines
VR1 ash content is 1.1% or less, and Rotella ash content is 1%. I couldn't find any modern oil that doesn't have a max ash content greater than ~1%.
I've been doing research into the renewable lubricants brand, and the TDS of the 15w-40 HD Plus line of oils shows an ash content <1. But, they do not list the ash content of their racing oil line, so I'm not sure what the ash of the 20W-50 is, but it's one of my questions in an email I wrote to them recently. 15W-40 TDS Racing Oil TDS
Curious what others feel about this oil. It got a lot of hype on social media for a bit, but I've only seen 1 person tear down an engine that was running their product.....and that engine was just using their premix, not their oil. I've been hesitant to make the switch to Renewable lubricants, but this news may force my hand.
08-14-24, 07:34 PM
