Ok, today was the first off the driveway test drive, and
while the it did go, it was not perfect
I think I have everything hooked up right, the only thing
I know was wrong, was the auto trani was not up to
the full mark, (I didn't have enough on hand to fill it) but
I don't think that would have caused it to run like it did.

What is happening,,, well it seems it wants to die when
throttle is given, in fact when I first put it in drive to go
and gave it gas it quit. and once you get going you cant
really give it much gas or it wants to quit, sounds like
limp mode to me,,, but why?
what should I check?,,, anyone... help,,, please

matt

 

For those who dont know,, I am talking about my 20b 1988 AE, stock computer stock trani, and twin turbos.

matt

 

why are you keeping the slushbox??

 

Because I am cheep and wanted to start out using the
Cosmo computer, and from what I was told the stock
computer will not run unless the auto trani is connected.

matt

 

vacuum leak?

mike

 

So far, you haven't proven otherwise, sorry to say...


-Ted

 

me thinks reted is upset about something.
take one part me cheap,, and two parts reted not
replying to email = home made motor mount adapters.
you cant say that I didnt almost spend the money,,,
but what i did was faster than shipping could deliver.

matt

 

mike no there appears to be no leaks,,, i will put a
boost gauge on it tonight and see what the vacuum is
like

matt

 

Ted is justing saying that maybe the stock ECU is still completely useless, even WITH the auto tranny hooked up.

I've always understood the situation as the stock ECU might work, but the only chance is if you use the stock ecu, wiring, ignitors, and auto tranny. Maybe you've shown that even with all the stock engine management stuff, the stock ECU needs something MORE to work correctly.

Did you start with a full Cosmo clip? maybe theres some sensors and stuff still in the clip you can find and try to use to get it working.
It does sound as if the motor has gone into a super limp mode or something.

 

there has to be something wrong, but limp home will not make it stall. maybe the torque converter is locked all the time? there should be a switch/solenoid for that. if you need it we can look in the fd auto trans part of the shop manual, both trannies are similar.
now, do you have the fd shop manual?? you should try to pull codes out of it, and it will be like an fd without using the check engine light.

mike

 

Fuel problems? Dirty injectors?

 

Uh, no...you're reading into my intentions totally wrong.

I am one of those "nay-sayers" that told you from the start it wouldn't work.&nbsp You insisted that you're determined to do it.&nbsp GREAT!&nbsp I wished you luck.&nbsp Now that you've come to a problem point - you're asking for help to get it running.&nbsp I just reminded you that it wasn't possible in the first place.&nbsp I have nothing against your project - I wished you luck in the first place.&nbsp It has nothing about being "cheap"...

I'm sure there were a lot of people who were counting on you to succeed.&nbsp Now you're stucky - your position looks rather "bleak" at the moment...so now you're asking for help.


-Ted

 

I hate it when people say it can't be done, or that things are impossible... weren't you the guy just two weeks lecturing me about how everyone said it was impossible to sail around the world until one brave sould did it? Why, I think you are that guy!!!!

Fresh minds breed innovation. Stale minds hinder enlightenment....

Quote:

...so now you're asking for help.

Isn't that what this forum is for? Are you slamming him for asking for help?

 

dont forget you cant run 1600cc injectors on the stock ecu either. besides he's come far enough that it would be dumb to just give up right now. without people to try new impossible taskes you would still be running a racing beat turbo back and an fcon. maybe with some help, ted we could learn something from this.

mike

 

reted,,, ok it was early in the morning when I read your
1st reply so if I misunderstood forgive me

Mike I don't think there is a check engine light,
not that I could find so how would you pull codes?
I have a friend coming on the weekend with the mazda
computer to read codes etc, he is going to check it
out and see what the problem is.

what I have been told so far is that my problem is
because I have no exhaust on the car, I have nothing
connected to the manifold, and was told that the stock
computer could cause this problem as a result of
no exhaust connected. (Comments)?
I might believe this because when I was running it on
the shop floor during the wiring reduction phase
it was running good, I had connected a old 3rd gen
muffler just to make it a little quieter while working on it.
Now that there is no exhaust on it in the car it is even idling
different, it has kind of a stumble that it didn't have while connected
to the muffler, how knows, so I guess I will put a exhaust on it
and see if makes a difference.

Later
matt

 

Mike on your 2nd post,,, I am far from giving up,
I was just looking for advice from anyone who
might have seen this type of problem with their 3rd gen.
I remember reading about a person who had the same
symptom with their 3rd gen and was hopping that someone
might remember what the problem was.

Matt

 

the trick with the 20b is that its half 89turbo 2 and half fd. it could be something dumb like the ldle speed set too low. i know your far from giving up, but im tired of hearing it cant be done. it can be done.

mike

 

http://www.mariahmotorsports.com/project_3rotor.htm

it can be done...check it out...

 

And it's stupid think go diving into something you have no clue in.&nbsp Have you seen the wiring that the Cosmo JC3S takes?&nbsp I did.&nbsp The while system is a mess - the automatic transmission is thoroughly integrated into the whole ECU control.&nbsp The error code system has bazillion more codes than even the FD has.&nbsp I'm giving you my assessment of the whole project as a "waste of time" in my book.&nbsp Have you got the 20B running?&nbsp I bet you haven't - I bet you have no clue on how to get everything running.&nbsp Don't be putting this **** in my face, cause I have already for running, and I know what it takes to get one up and running.&nbsp Until you get your car running, please, don't tell me what can and cannot be done with a 20B.

History doesn't notate all the failures of "ingenius men" who have tried radical ideas.&nbsp Not every concept is a good one - Coca Cola was made out of coca leaves which was once touted as a cure-all for every remedy in the book.&nbsp Now it's known as a narcotic...


Don't be accusing me of something I didn't do.&nbsp I did not SLAM him - I merely stated that he had not accomplished what he set out to do.&nbsp If I had SLAMMED him, you would've all known it.&nbsp I was just stating an observation - is that something that's not PC all of a sudden?

So I don't see anyone helping him out - now why is that?&nbsp How many of you can actually offer him assistance in this project?&nbsp How many of you have Cosmo JC3S manuals sitting in front of you?

Let me change the question around - how many 20B with automatic transmissions are running is something other than the original JC3S Cosmo chassis using the stock ECU and ignition?&nbsp I'd like to see proof otherwise, cause I can't recall of such a beast...




-Ted

 

I'm sorry, I get paid for these swaps, and I'm not about to volunteer information at this point.&nbsp I couldn't even help you out if I could, cause I don't have the manual in front of me right now.&nbsp Paul Ko @ K2RD has it, and he has my copy also.&nbsp Maybe you can go bug him about help...



-Ted

 

People calm down,,, cant we all just get along!
also a good point,, lets stick to helping me not
wasting key strokes on arguing
rxtra7 that link you listed i think that project is running after market computer not like what i am trying to do..

matt

 

ted said "History doesn't notate all the failures of "ingenius men" who have tried radical ideas. Not every concept is a good one - Coca Cola was made out of coca leaves which was once touted as a cure-all for every remedy in the book. Now it's known as a narcotic... "

i didnt say it was a good idea, or even if it works a car that is going to be fun to drive, but now is willing to give it a shot, and if he can make it work thats more than you or i have done.

mike

 

I'm no 20b expert but there are some obvious things to check:

1) MAP Sensor - mazda loves them so I bet the 20b uses them. Obviously it's best to check the voltage at the ecu pin but there's even easier ways. If you can actually get the car rolling you can open the throttle until the boost gauge reads dead 0. If the car pulls fine then but bad either side then the sensor is dead / open.

2) Throttle Sensor - often used to switch between idle control and 'run' maps. If it doesnt see the throttle poor software can forget to switch to the 'run' algorith. Toyota ECU's from the 80's do this for example.

3) Air inlet, water temp - The ECU thinks its a hot start so the choke settings are up the proverbial. If it stalls when you hit throttle when cold idle it until it warms up then try it.

"limp home mode" is touted by people who don't have a clue but just guess. Only a handful of ECU's actually have blanket modes the rest have a "here's what I'll do if THIS sensor ***** up" algorithm. The only time they will cut power is for traction control, knock sensor, water/air temp, boost and cat overheat sensor failures.

I did an auto-manual conversion on my turbo supra when everyone told me it wouldnt work. It's pretty simple to find out how your gonna go: Disconnect the ECU loom connector from the trans computer and go for a drive. If it follows the maps your set. You'll inevitably find that the VERY low RPM maps are way too lean because a torque converter WAS there.

-pete

 

I can't believe you've already taken that car for a road test !

 

The stock 20B ECU will go into limp home mode if anything is amiss, including emissions components. That code checker will help clarify any problems. You will have to either hook up everything as stock, or bypass some of the ECU circuitry. This is why everyone else uses an aftermarket EMS.

The stock Cosmo came with variable exhaust valves. This may cause a problem with the stock ECU if you do not have the stock exhaust installed, but I'm not sure.