Without being rude or belittling anyone elses 20B efforts, it seems like this swap (in the scheme of engine swaps/hybrids) is one of the easier swaps that exists in the world. Having a subframe/mount solution available, a known-good solution for ECU, and being able to use alot of parts from the 13B makes this somewhat straightforward in what I have been reading.

Parts like clutches, turbos, intercoolers, fuel pumps, etc should really not be included in the calculation of the ACTUAL swap (in my opinion) as these are necessary items for achieving certain power levels regardless of the powerplant.

The reason I am posting this is that I am currently contemplating doing this swap into my recently acquired blown-motor FD. I just finished my SR20DET -> 240Z hybrid project (pics here: http://www.fototime.com/inv/DD0A8F246FC6465) and this really seems like an easy job in comparison! EVERYTHING needed for the SR swap was completely custom, this just seems that much easier in that regard with very few (maybe even none?) fabricated parts required.

Thoughts?

 

maybe, maybe not... but assuming i wanted to do a b-rated fd swap, could i more or less run a hose from the tank down to the oil pump pickup (obviously, all other factors set aside)?

i dig the idea of the metal plate on the bottom of the engine.

 

I don't think you're being rude, just misunderstood. I don't think the swap is difficult, just time consuming and expensive. Almost every 20B swap post is someone trying to figure out why it costs more then ten grand. But custom isn't necessarily hard just once again, time consuming and most of the time expensive.

 

Just curious, how many scavenge points are you guys running with your setups? And where? Where are you running your pressure line, through the oil coolers (on r1's), to the oil pedastel?

 

Finally, I could see the pics.. I think because I was still using the "rx7clubs.com".

Anyhow, I have couple of questions to ask.. First, is there a reason why you got the front cover for the distributor??

Two, how much oil are you planning to use.. and what size sump tank are you going to make.

I've also decided this is the route I'll be taking for my 20B project. Like the Acosta's FD conversion. I'm going to lower the LIM and UIM, get rid of all the emission stuff (getting it one by Garfinkle right now). Get the front cover and sump kit from Mazda Comp. Replace the rear plate with 13B-REW and get it ported to match.

Also, what type of water pump are you going to be using??

Thank you so much for those pics.. Seeing it, definitely helps.

 

what's the difference in the stock 20B rear housing and the 13b-rew housing? Just different bolt positions? Can't you just tig some plates to the housing for the mounts or is it just easier to use the rear housing from an FD?

 

well, cheaper method would be to buy a sub frame to just bolt the 20b.
change out the flywheel with aftermarket one, bolt up the tranny minus one bolt, put the stock twins into non-seq. and get an aftermarket ecu. use fd water pump assembly and take off all the ac/power steering junk. get some pipings made and you now have a 20b in an fd.. Cost.. Maybe 7-10k??

That was just a quick estimate..

What I've realized by researching are that there are so many different ways to go.. Depend on the power and how reliable you want to make, cost will increase..

 

If you replace the rear plate with FD, you could just mount it to stock fd subframe.

but, you would need to lower the UIM and LIM so that the hood will close.

Eunos Cosmos were all automatic cars and the rear plate was made for an automatic tranny.. so, one bolt will be different.. Also, the engine mounting point might be different.. I never checked this so don't quote me..

One of the reason I'm going with dry sump is because I have to get the engine rebuilt and going to use RZ tranny. So, rear plate will be from an FD and instead of making a custom oil pan, dry sump will eliminate that. And like RX-heven, the thick bottom plate will stiffen up the engine little more.. as one of the biggest problem with 20B is the twisting of the engine as higher power is acheived.. I'm also going to add additional dow pin. One other reason for dry sump is that it has better oil flow. Mazda comp say their sump kit will increase flow by 30% (I think??).

Like GT1-20B told me, its expensive but worth the investment..

 

The 'distributor hole' is for a cas. You 3rd gen guys don't have one.
Not sure of my ignition setup as of yet.

If I can fit an 8 quart resorvoir somewhere that would be nice, but will probably settle on a 6 quart tank that is an off the shelf unit. That with all the lines/coolers would probably be in excess of 10 quarts. Space, especially the height becomes a limiting factor as sump tanks are typically much taller than they are wide to prevent starvation and I will be locating mine in the engine compartment.

I have an fd water pump. Someday I'll bolt it on....

 

Thank you for the info above.

Would you mind telling me which off the shelf unit you are going with??
Maybe a pic and dimension if possible..

Thank you!

PHIL

 

since i can make a lot of my own parts and occasionally have access to machine shop equipment, i'd rather sump it and save $2k on a subframe. all the other costs are piece at a time.

 

this thread should get sticky'd!

1

 

You will also need to port match the secondary intake runner to match the 20b's LIM. The 13b secondary port is smaller by comparison. Then make a custom oil pan.

 

Thanks for mentioning that.. T-von is right! you would also need to port match the 13b port to 20B LIM.

 

Does using a dry-sump system also eliminate the need to modify the steering mechanisms?

 

that takes all day!!

 

Yes.

 

Yes,

By going dry sump, you don't need the oil pan.. So, you could just put a flat sheet/plate instead of the oil pan.

price is only drawback.. but the gain might be worth it.. especially if the engine is newly built. that was the reason why i decided to go with dry sump and also not messing with stock steering system..

 

so who sells the dry sump stuff?

 

I will definitely have my 20B rebuilt and ported before going in, so I would just as soon go with the dry sump if I can avoid all the bump-steer issues.

 

I've just uploaded some pic/video of the dry sump kit.

go check it out.. It will be up for next 60 days.

http://homepage.mac.com/rotariesatde...eTheater2.html

and

http://homepage.mac.com/rotariesatde...eTheater3.html

 

that's cool.
how much is it?

 

As much as a used 20B... Front cover without the pump is 2700ish Mazda comp price.. thats also means you are part of scca, nhra, or provide other form of future racing.. and then you have to buy the pump, custom lines, tank, and maybe upgraded oil coolers.. could go up to 5+k. And its almost impossible to find one use.. I've already tried.. pretty hard! I've emailed with someone three four months ago and he wanted to know how much I will sell the 20B after its completely built.. I said at least 15k and he asked why.. Hope it makes sense why now..

 

holy crap!! is there any reason i couldn't just strap a hose onto the oil pickup and dump the return into the reservoir?

 

Do not forget that you cannot just bolt on the dry-sump front cover and be done with it. There are internal modifications to the engine as well.
btw, that is close to what I spent on my 20b build. It also has 3mm cermaics which aren't cheap either
Where would you locate the tank? Would it be gravity fed? Not a good idea. Plus it would be a plumbing nightmare in all likelihood.
Another pump? May as well go with a dry sump setup. You do no need the front cover to do this. The front cover just makes it 'easy' and in a smaller more convienent package.