Gordon, you misunderstood the post made by EarlT, he was in fact quoting Logan's post here: https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...8&postcount=52 and simply asking which website he was talking about. He just forgot to use the "Quote" function.

EarlT: the website Logan is referring to is www.DefinedAutoworks.com

 

Thanks for keeping a eye out for me G, but Earl was just quoting me from a earlier post. It did appear confusing however!

 

Be advised that Google chrome is blocking www.DefinedAutoworks.com as it contains information from a known malware propagator.

 

Mine doesn't block it at all, care to elaborate?

 

Mine does the same.

 

All is Forgiven.

I was trying to get the Name of the WebSite.
and help those in the Future,
that will come across this Post.


I really like 20B engines!

 

Google Chrome Warning: Something's Not Right Here!
www.definedautoworks.com contains content from traffichomesearchterminal.co.cc, a site known to distribute malware. Your computer might catch a virus if you visit this site.

 

Yeah I have been hearing about our site doing this . I will definitely look into it asap!

 

Not getting the warning any more. Checked out the site, looks good. The idea of a 10k RPM N/A 20b with stock mounting location just gets me excited. The thing that bums me out is the tranny selection to handle those RPMs =/.

 

I think the motor from the first picture in your Engine Rebuilds section is in my FD right now. Whatchu think?

 

Looks like it, but we have built a few with that exact color scheme. Nice turbo

 

^^Thanks man. I think It'll do the job.

I'm pretty new to the N/A rotary, So this may be a stupid question but why do you get more power out of a factory upper intake manifold and semi p-ports than you do out of full p-ports on a 20b?

 

^You don't! Full PP still make more MAX power. Some of them can be built to put down 470 to the rear tires. What your getting with the stock intake and semi PP is a more usable power band in all rpms ranges with max power CLOSE to a full PP. Best of both worlds. To truly understand what's going on, your gonna have to do a **** load of research. No offense to the turbo guys but they are clueless when it comes to how NA rotarys make their power. It's doesn't take rocket science to know that when you increase boost, you add more fuel and use the proper timing. NA is a entirely different animal when it comes to making power at specific sections of the power band. The length of your intake runners makes a difference! The size of your exhaust makes a difference. How you port the engine makes a difference. Throttle body size ect! Then you have to deal with doing specific mods that don't hurt your entire power band. NA is very tricky because you may increase gains in 1 section of the rpm band and completely have the opposite effect in another portion of the rpm band. I personally didn't start researching the NA thing till 2004. With that and my own experimenting, it wasn't until a couple years ago that I felt that I knew what I needed to do. Once you master the NA thing, then turboing is a piece of cake because you have an even further understanding of what's actually going on inside the engine.

 

I don't understand what's up with these N/A folk. Why don't you guys just throw on a bigger throttlebody, bigger air filter, colder plugs and cut the headers off at the flange to make more power?

 

^^^ I see no flaws in this plan

 

It appears as I do more testing that a semi p-port is capable of as much power and more than fully prepped race p-port engines. This took many many years of research and development however. Even using other 13b engines as test beds. Lots of pain, and disappointments were involved. lol.


At the moment you will not find a full p-port 20b producing 470rwhp. Possibly rumors, but nothing even remotely concrete. If you did a poll (and all the racers actually answered) a majority of full p-port race engines are putting out 380-410rwhp. I know of one, race 20b that recently dyno'd at 550 flywheel horsepower. This was with the best minds in the world working on it. So that one engine could produce 467rwhp. But represents the total upper end a race 20b. In fact the dyno numbers we have been making has caused some controversy, and looks like a trip to a different dyno out of state will be happening in the near future


Do you mean slap on a turbo? Or literally just a bigger throttle body, bigger air filter and cut off the header collector? If its the second one, then that is why making big power n/a is ironically not about just going bigger.

 

Sorry Logan, like I just had to explain to someone else in PM, sarcasm is sadly lost when posting on the internet

I was just being an *** in response to T-von's statement about turbo guys, and meant it in good humour.

 

LOL! The doubters will never cease to amaze me! Go get-em Logan!

Now I did see a dyno run of a PP 20b on youtube that had 787b style telescoping intake that supposedly made that 470rwhp power figure. When I thought about it, it made since. That's 157 rwhp per rotor.

So that's 314rwhp for a 2 rotor, 470rwhp for a 3 rotor, and 628 rwhp for the 787b. Considering that the 787b made 690 at the crank. It all matches up to me when it comes to MAX potential.

 

Don't get but hurt. LOL! I thought I put MOST turbo guys in my post but I didn't. Sorry! But it is true that a very HIGH % are clueless about the specific details.

 

I don't see why people don't believe a semi p port cant' make power close to a full pport. You're running all the stock 4 ports that can be ported and then pports on top of that. That's alot of air and fuel coming in! I don't think it will ever attain the power from a full pport though. There's more people out there making big power out of N/A 20bpports than you think. Kilito just ran a 9.03 at 148mph in a 2110lb car in the 1/4mile! Do the math there boys.

 

Ah, I should have guessed that there was some elbow jabbin in that statement

It is alot of air for sure. And you are correct that in theory a semi p-port will lag behind in horsepower, but only because of the additional wall friction. 3 runners per rotor is a bunch more surface area vs. one large runner. So pumping loss is higher on semi p-port aka produces less peak torque.

Now being good friends with Carlos Lopez (who in my humble opinion is one of the best n/a rotary guys around) he personally said 550 crank hp is the tippy top. Best ecu, ignition, injection, exhaust, hours upon hours of dyno time and a great deal of money. So if anyone is making more than this, I would think Carlos and Mazda would have heard about it. A drag race 20b like Kilito is not using gasoline if I recall correctly. Once you are on methanol/alcohol its a whole different ball game!



Yeah I like to do everything by the book, so if going to another facility to make some dyno pulls backs up my numbers............ so be it! If I was rich I would tour america just to meet everyone and have a dyno day in each state! haha.

I saw that video as well, it was a really great vid! The 787B is a mid engine car so its drivetrain loss would be 10% range placing it at 623rwhp. But in a front engine configuration the 787b engine would lay down 586rwhp. No doubt 470rwhp can and has been made, but it might only be one or two engines doing it. Not a easy number to reach!

 

Quick question, does your Dyno-pack take into account the lack of rear tires? I can't remember if I asked you this question before.

 

Yes, it seems to always read the same as a dynojet. Of course if you have majorly wide tires, or strap it down too hard then a dynojet could read a bit lower. The dyna pack will always read the same regardless, so as a tuning tool this is why they are more consistent.

 

Well, according to the MPH method, 534 HP @ crank should be enough, but by the ET method, there should be at least 566 HP@ crank.

No doubt, dynojet would read 550+ whp

 

I'm very new to the N/A game so these questions might be stupid but oh well....

Why have the P-Ports only open at half throttle? Wouldn't they provide more power through the full rpm range if opened with the upper manifold throttle body?

Why use an upper intake manifold with 1 large throttle body instead of individual throttle bodies for the side ports?

What radiator are you running? I'm guessing an N/A runs substantially cooler than a turbo, but I could be wrong.

Any videos of this thing in motion??