fdracer

dude, read my very first post

Barwick

so how much power and reliability can I expect for $250,000 from Downing Atlanta or Mandeville Auto Tech?

And you're serious, it'll cost that much for them to do that? I mean, Ligenfelter does a 1000hp Corvette for like fifty grand, and that's the whole car AND labor if I understand it correctly.

Now PP would be out of the question for reliability or streetability problems? I guess the huge brapping idle like the 787B would get me in trouble with the local law enforcement.

fdracer

how can that be car and labor if the corvette itself costs almost 50g's.

Barwick

that's on top of the price of the brand new corvette. You buy it and send it to them.

fdracer

yes i know that, but you're the one that said quote: "that's the whole car AND labor"

Evil Aviator

Geez, do you want a Corvette or an RX-7?

Anyway, you would get about 600-800bhp out of a 3-rotor on a streetable car running at a somewhat reliable boost level. Their cars have run quite well in endurance racing, and they are probably the two most reliable rotary high-performance shops in the world. Yes, I would budget $250,000 for that project, but they may be able to do it for less. Remember, something like this is going to have composite body panels, a $20,000 transmission, a $10,000 Motec EMS with all the extras, a fully tuned and cc'd custom exhaust, etc. Besides, you said that money didn't matter. You could also step down one level to the mainstream rotary performance shops like PFS and Pettit, who could probably build you a very nice show-quality 3-rotor FC or FD for about $100,000.

Attached is a pic of a Mandeville RX-7.

Node

iTrader: (1)

How about the scoot engine setup, but 20b

secondary p-port, a large BB turbo, seperate throttlebodies for the pport and primaries, i could go on and on.

Node

iTrader: (1)

and can you buy me a 20b to play with while you're at it :-\

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

actually the "cheap" way out would be to find one of the ex-imsa cars and fix it up. you could probably find the car for under 40k and spend another 20 fixing it

mike

Node

iTrader: (1)

or just buy RE Amemiyas 4wd 20b

fdracer

evil, what kind of apex seals does mandeville use?

Attila the Fun

iTrader: (1)

Easy path: buy my car. See: www.cris.com/~Asam/20B.html Drop it off at PFS, and have Peter upgrade the motor to the same specs as the fearsome "Black Car" and add a Big Brake kit. My car is $39,900, and, based on what Peter has quoted me in the past, the upgrades should be a little less than $20,000.

"Power down low" with driveability and reliability is no problem. With no internal engine modification and using the stock turbos, I'm getting 478 lb/ft of torque. You'll find it quite adequate.

According to the folks at Kudzu Racing, a mild street port and a big turbo will get buckets of power that they have proven reliable in 24-hour enduro events. Peter said that a certain amount of porting is necessary to get the full benefit of the big single turbo.

For engine management, Peter has used twin Electromotive Tec IIs on my car and the Black Car. The new Tec III will handle a 20B, without needing a second unit. Since Electromotive is right across the street, you can be sure that the car will be optimally tuned.

Peter uses 2-mm seals pointing out that they have been reliable, even in his 28-psi drag motor. FWIW, Peter said that, based on testing with my car, 1000 hp would be a reasonable goal for a 20B done to the specs of his drag car (includes a 100-shot nitrous).

Hope all that helps.

Evil Aviator

Downing Atlanta uses Iannetti seals, so I would assume that Mandeville uses the same. You would have to ask them to get accurate info, though.

Barwick

I think I'd be content with 700-800 with a moderate amount of boost if that's what it takes to keep the engine reliable. "only" 800 hp.. heh.. that's good enough for me.

Now, where is PFS? Or who should I take it to to get this done? I'd LIKE to be able to do some work on it myself alongside them also (it IS my car after all).

Only reason I balked at the $250,000 is because that's like Ferrari land. If $250,000 got me like 1200hp, sure I'd go for it.

bermuda20b

maybe barwick will get a group rate if he buys 20b's for all of us....I will give him mine (I only have about 90k) into it if he gives me a downing rx

Attila the Fun

iTrader: (1)

Glad you can content yourself with modest amounts of power.

PFS is in Manassas, VA.

Barwick

So where can I get one of those old IMSA cars? Are they tube frame 3rd gens with 20B's in 'em? I'd love to get my hands on one. Maybe I'll contract them to build one and somehow get it on the street.

RETed

"700-800hp" streetable?&nbsp Yeah, right.&nbsp I'd like to see your Pro Driving license please?


-Ted

Evil Aviator

700-800bhp isn't going to happen at "moderate" boost levels. However, it will probably hold together for a while if built well. Of course, I could be wrong, so it's best to ask the pros.

BTW, you do realize that you will need quite a bit of professional driving lessons to keep from killing yourself with that much power, right?

Um, not much chance of that unless you buy the shop. Even then it would be tough to keep the lead mechanic from quitting under those conditions. Hehehe, Peter is going to love talking with you, LOL:
http://www.pfsupercars.com/bdypags/m...ultimedia.html

A used stock F40 costs nearly twice that much right now, and the F50 was lease-only in the US with a $240,000 down payment. Is the RX-7 a good deal or what?

I have a feeling that you don't quite understand how much things really cost. You will learn, young one.

Yes, you can find old 20B race cars (not many), or just look for an old 13B race car and drop a 20B in it. Note that the IMSA 20B race cars produced less than 500bhp, so you will need to greatly upgrade them to handle more power if that's what you want. You can check for old race cars in the monthly publication of your local SCCA chapter. Here are two other sites that I know of:
http://www.improvedtouring.com/Classifieds/index2.cfm
http://www.downingatlanta.com/da_forsale_new.htm

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i've seen old imsa cars in hemmings too.
thats a good point guys, 300rwhp in an fc makes a really fast street car....

mike

rpm_pwr

I was thinking the same thing....

Say you got a 20b rebuilt with peripheral housings. Then you built an inlet manifold to have a shutter valve on the secondary inlet runners that fed the PP. You wouldnt need an entire TB assembly, there's a company near me that makes an electrically controlled valve for dual exhausts.

All you would do then is back out a signal from the ECU at a predetermined load/rpm point that opened the valves. Obviously the car would get a sh$tload louder but it's no different to having to shut up an open wastegate on the street.

-pete

hawk 7

iTrader: (2)

Barwick have you contacted any of the companies mentioned. I would think with a project of this magnitude it would be best to get their advice. Even the most experienced people here can give you just a theory on what you should do. You seem to want to take your project further than anyone has taken a street driven 20b. The companies everyone is telling you about probably could give you more insight. Even if you are not contracting until '04 I think now is the time you need to build a relationship with your engine builder.

Barwick

yes I race cars on a real race track, I understand these things. By the time the car comes back to me in 2005 I'll have 3 years racing experience and should be able to keep it from swapping ends every other time I step on the gas.

Evil Aviator

Dale Earnhardt had 26 years of experience and still died in a 700-800 hp car which most likely had many more safety components than the car you will be building.

Barwick

*sigh*

yes, I understand these things. You don't need to lecture me (the person who usually lectures other people about overpowered cars).

Look, I'm still learning. I'm going to have probably a Z06 or something of that nature before I get this car. If not, I might just have a 400hp FC buildup before then.

Like I said I'm still learning. I've watched a guy who raced an ITA RX-7 for a few years go from his car to a 700hp full tube-frame GT-1 car on a 2 1/2 car wide track at full throttle on slicks in the rain to do a sound check. It *can* be done, okay? I don't need a lecture on this.