felix_is_alive

ok guys i am doing a 20b/3rd gen swap (got some nice pics too) now before you flame me to death on this i already checked around but i couldnt find an answer to my specific question (and yes i know there`s a similar thread here ) ......i have a rebuilt 20b with 2mm seals ,it has been pinned ,plus somewat of a sloppy street port i got a turbonetics t76 turbo on it (planning to get a 1.32 turbine housing ) microtech ecu.......what kind of horsepower can i expect on this thing, my plans are 13-15 psi pump gas and when i need to 20 psi (wich i will use race gas for c-16) oh yes this is a full street car not cut in anyway radio a/c p/s .....and yes i know its difficult to get accurate numbers but ballpark figure will do ........if anyones interested i can post pics (not shure how but i can try)

jamesdeanrx7

IM going to guess 500 hp a nice round number, what do you guys think.

felix_is_alive

at 20psi of boost race gas !!!!! no way man i would be better off with my 2 rotor

jamesdeanrx7

well you stated 13 to 15 psi on pump gas dude, 20 psi and race gas ok looking around 600 and Im being easy like you said to I think it might be more but giving you a safe estimate. I hope the project goes well. Just remember what you originally posted..... and if you kept your two rotor then you wouldnt have as much torque...just info for thought maybe aviator can help on this two

jamesdeanrx7

oh yea you also stated ballpark!!!!! thats what I gave you giving that there is good tuning then yea youll have more..

felix_is_alive

i know i know didnt mean to come of all wierd ...u think its possible 20 psi with some nos ....basically i want to come up with about 850 rwhp ...please dont laugh ....around there i would be happy ....2mm seals with very good tunner what do you think possible or myth

jamesdeanrx7

I think you could do it without nos for sure. I dont know if you could get it with the turbonetics t76 we might have to ask "Evil aviator" on that one. good question though for sure. Do I think its possiable yes maybe with a larger turbo, or 25 to 30 psi

felix_is_alive

hhmmm ....but will it hold i dont want this thing to be a one shot deal since you know boost is good but boost also kills the more boost the less durability (it has to be within reason).....hhhmmm where is the aviator when you need him .....

Evil Aviator

Lociento, no habla nitrous oxide. You need to ask a drag racer about that.

jamesdeanrx7

lol... seee i told you he would tell you whats up lol.....

felix_is_alive

**** ok fair enough but how far you think the t76 will kick it i am trying to stay away from nitrous since its violent and i dont want that kind of reaction at high boost (more or less 20 psi) think that horse is possible

Turbo 3

iTrader: (3)

I've been told by a drag racing friend of a friend out of Chi-cago that you should try and exceed 700 HP on a stock internal 20B or the e-shaft will be prone to breaking. You're basically running the same turbo/port as I am (mine's not running yet) but we don't know about your injectors and FMIC either. I was planning on hitting around the 600 RWHP mark with 1Bar of boost (14.7psi) on pump gas (92 oct). Race fuel and 20psi you will probably be in the 700 range.

There's also the small issue of a thing we like to call friction. Have you built the rest of the car to even handle 500hp and maintain traction? or are you just looking for big #'s?

If you're serious about 800+ HP other reliability things should include internal engine coatings (like on piston rings and such), having a billet e-shaft made, and lightening the rotors. I thought the stock TB and manifold topped out around 900hp or thereabouts too so changing the upper manifold and TB is another issue for air flow.

Another thing to consider is water injection vs. NOS as it will kick in at whatever throttle load or pressure you want as well giving you the safety margin to still run pump gas while adding another 2-5 psi (tuning plays big throughout).

Still another thing to look into is running twin turbos. You could run two (2) T-66's, T-70's, T-72's, T-76's, or some of the different Garret configurations as well and run only 15 psi but the air charge would be much much cooler from the turbos running in their peak efficiency zones and not "working" hard to maintain the pressure.

You can also take a look of the plot I've done for the T-76 using an excel spreadsheet. It looks (this is theorectical) like I can hit 10psi at 2K and hit 15 by 3K and be in the most efficient portion of the compressor map throughout the powerband which was my goal, extract the most power by heating the air the least but I still have a lot of room to increase boost should I wish to later down the road.

felix_is_alive

dude this is the deal i am in the process of building two cars my own (3rotor fd) and my best friends all out supra (already you can see the problem)as i am working with onother shop in the states on this fun project(s) its coo and all but the way i see this my friends supra is going to pump out roughly 950-1000 and more if he sprays this thing ...

i had a 2 rotor running about 27 psi boost (race gas ) and i got around pretty decent but now it has become a hp war and i feel i will be left behind (supra being the rx7 natural predator .....scary) if i cant come up with some hp i dont know if i can cut it
no work on e shaft and my big worry is that i am running 2mm seals ...also i am going to run 1600cc secondaries and 850 primaries ..... apexi fmic
so i am going to be stuck at 700 and wont be able to pass it

felix_is_alive

turbo 3 do you have some pics of youre car that i could see since youre running almost same setup

felix_is_alive

does anybody really know how strong the e-shaft really is ? i`ve read elsewhere on this forum that the shaft can hold up to lots of abuse while others state its weak whats the deal here anyone care to coment??

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

there arent enough people running high hp 20bs to really know, i could be wrong

felix_is_alive

guess i am going to find out the herd way ouch

felix_is_alive

there are 2 types of e shafts one of them is stronger as i understand but how strong is it really ????i hate to find out the hard way

Turbo 3

iTrader: (3)

What do you want pics of? The exhaust manifold and turbo...? what? PM me your email address for the pics.

I'm going to quote myself again here for effect: "If you're serious about 800+ HP other reliability things should include internal engine coatings (like on piston rings and such), having a billet e-shaft made, and lightening the rotors. I thought the stock TB and manifold topped out around 900hp or thereabouts too so changing the upper manifold and TB is another issue for air flow. "

Those are the only things I'm aware of that will get you into that range safely (don't forget about EMS and Fuel fuel, fuel).

You may want to also consider cryogenically treating your metal parts such as the seals, housings, etc. Another option is to go with some of the different configurations of seals such as ceramic.

If you want to get into the 1000+ hp range, my thought is to go to a 4-rotor with a twin turbo setup and divided turbines for each pair of rotors, plus different intake manifold, etc, etc.

It sounds like you need to do more research before committing your resources on this project as you have a lot of questions yet.

jorx7

iTrader: (11)

at 13 to 15 psi ,you should be in the 650hp range tunned right, considering the 20b has 500hp at 12 to 13psi stock.pluse you have a street port so, at 20 psi should be 750hp range ,the guys here in new jersey ,have a street driveable 3rdgen wit 900hp , 3rotor . so it depends on who is tunning it ,im planning on a three rotor swap into my fc soon and am looking to push 900hp up to 1,000hp only for show purpose but will run 750hp daily bases , good luck with it .

Evil Aviator

Stock 20B-REW: About 255hp
Stock 20B-REW @ 10psi boost, emissions-legal, with lots of expensive parts and a top-notch tuner: About 390hp
Stock 20B-REW @ 12psi boost with lots of expensive parts and a top-notch tuner: About 430hp
Street-Ported 20B-REW @ 15psi boost with lots of expensive parts and a top-notch tuner: About 550hp

* Lots of expensive parts and a top-notch tuner = over $30,000 USD parts and labor.

Auto Illusions

I am going to probably get abused for this comment but Marcos Acosta is going to do my engine build. He claims he is getting 1025HP to the wheels with his rx-8 20B swap on race fuel. (i think around 800 with 93 octane) He has enough experience and is not near as expensive as some of the other rotary builders with less 20B experience.

Evil Aviator

Hey, could you please post a picture of one of his 20B street cars? I know that he has made a lot of them, but just one picture would be a good reference for his work.

Auto Illusions

I met marcos at the sema show in las vegas. He drove the RX-8 to and from the show from NJ. That seems like good reliabilaty. This is the car he claimed to me to have made 1025 RWHP on VP racing fuel. I hope this is not a fary tale number but i trust him as of now. He claims that after building and tuning my car, it will make 1000 HP and possibly at the wheels! I am using his turbo setup except changing the exhaust from a Q trim to an R trim with a slightly smaller diameter. This suggested by both him and innovative turbo!

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i was dissapointed that thing didnt run at sevenstock, i wanted to hear it