midnight_7

i found out that one of our local rotary shops in the area does 20b swaps. ive been thinking of a 20b n/a since i heard it from REted. they said, they'll sit down with me to discuss it, but i wanted to get all of your opinions and ideas about it.

so a stock 20b non-turbo, stock ports mated to a t2 tranny(?) to a t2 rear(?) and all the electronics needed (we have a local microtech tuner) plus the extras (suspension for the heavier engine...etc.)

how much would an endeavour cost....

has anyone tried it or know of a working model other than Ted?

BlaCkPlaGUE

Thats why the want to 'sit down' and talk about it.

NZConvertible

I know a guy that has a completely stock 20B minus turbos in a Mazda 808 wagon, run by a MicroTech and with an S5 gearbox bolted up. It goes very, very well.

capn

got 15 grand?

Schmitty

iTrader: (11)

It wont cost anything to sit and talk to them... see what kind of price they can give you first. Then ask about opinions.

totallimmortal

why not keep the stock twins?

sillbeer

I think that will still cost around $10 grand. Thats just a rough guess.

Clutch
Radiator/new hoses
EMS/wirring
engine mounts
custom header
Fuel pump
an extra T2 oil cooler
some suspension work
20b clip providing nothing is wrong with the motor


-Destin

capn

well if i were doing a 20b swap i would want to do a pretty good swap i would definatly tear down the block and replace anything suspect and port it

and also i would do everything the right way instead of ***** riggin it

midnight_7

well i talked to them and itll be around $30K CAD, give or take $5K.

he suggested doing a bridgeport with microtech to keep it 6-port and cheaper, but i told him its gotta pass smog...lol..

im re-thinking my options. i might just sttle for the old-fashioned s/p with microtech to squeeze as much as i can out of it and still be reliable, smog-legal and daily driven (winter to summer)

sillbeer

Why go with an NA BP? It reduces the life of the engine. Just stay with the stock ports and keep it turbo. You'll have a better all around car that will last longer.


-Destin

midnight_7

for 2 reasons:

1. im not a forced induction guy

2. im the guy who wants that rare car.

but to be honest, if it really came to that, ill be open to a turbo.

GT1-20b

Any 20b RUNNING will be VERY satisfying !
Just want to let You in on some important details, so You can ENJOY it !
1) The OEM Intake Man. & Tb. will NOT flow enough air to let it rev. up, like the old school rotaries we all grew up with. SO, NEED TO DEAL WITH making a N/A 20b breathe !!!. The Tb. is smaller than the 13b REW. Its like an 87' 6p. N/A Throtle body
How did those engines feel STOCK, OR PORTED, through the factory EFI Tb's. & Intakes ??
2) Wether injected or carburated, wether Str. P. or Bridge P'd, You MUST FAB-UP an Intake with Individual Tb's per rotor, so it can BREATHE, or it will BE STIFLED. The OEM Intake is "JUST TOO RESTRICTIVE".
3) Will also need to build a "Tuned Exhaust syst." that will scavange the engine so it can rev. up freely.
4) Need a light weight Flywheel & Cluth package that can take the power at elevated Revs.
5) Special attention to cooling is required, as the rev. range You'll be working "WITH IN" will demand correct W/P's speeds to prevent "Cavitation".
All these issues addressed?, ........ You stand to make 330 Hp. w/ Str. P's. & 390 Hp. w/ Bridge P's @ 8800 + Rpm's,...
And that's a LOT OF FUN !

Done plenty of this year's ago. If interested in some illustrations, PM me.
Best Regards,

GT1-20b

Evil Aviator

If you are serious about making a high-performance NA 20B, and you are not just trying to think of a "cheap" way of wedging a 20B in your car, then see the post by GT1-20b above.

You really need to discuss this with your local shop to get accurate cost and performance details. Every shop has different pricing, abilities, and limitations.

Keep in mind that it is probably better to start with a TII as opposed to converting an NA car. You will need all of the TII driveline, and you will also need the TII hood if you retain the stock 20B-REW intake manifold and mount the engine in the stock TII location. It is just not worth converting unless you have a large amount of money in your current NA car (expensive roll cage, custom gauges, custom paint job, etc.).

Also, the Microtech EMS products are really intended for engines with forced induction. They have very few load bands in the vacuum range, and the load bands can't be reconfigured by the user. Fortunately, Microtech does offer customization, so you may want to check and see if they can rework the load bands for a 20B NA engine. If this is not possible, the LTX-12 will still work on an NA, but I think its competitors would offer a better solution if you are more concerned about performance than you are about price.

It is probably going to cost more than if you used a 20B-REW with the stock turbos, and it will have less torque and horsepower if the exhaust needs to be street-legal.

Non-turbo 20B engines have competed in road racing events for well over a decade.

totallimmortal

My thoughts exactly. it just seems that unless you were building a NA race engine it's not really worth it.

cloud9

iTrader: (4)

this car is an N/A 3-rotar

SPiN Racing

TIME OUT!!!!!!!!!!!

Umm You need to look into another shop to go with if what you say is true.

THEY ARE NOT 6-PORTS.....

If the shop is telling you to "keep it 6-port" You should NOT go there. OR talk to the person who really knows what the hell they are doing... No wait..
Run away!!!

If the shop wrench knows his job Cool... if the shop has someone who knows that little in sales/billing.. you will get the shaft for real when it comes to money.

Run AWAY...
(IMHO)


Now ...... If YOU misquoted... Then no worries. Ask the shop what to do.. and go from there..

Kenku

Uh... technicially, they *are* 6-ports. Just think of a 20B with the aux intake setup though... 9 ports. Wouldn't that be weird?

Not disagreeing with the sentiment though.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Listen to Gt1-20b..

He knows his stuff.. Amen!!

Evil Aviator

I read the initial post the same way you did. However, now that SPiN posted that, and I re-read the post, I am not so sure, lol.

SPiN Racing

He he he.. umm.. <smacks forehead>
Yes... they have 6 (space) ports.
Not 6-ports...

Hmm.. Makes you wonder.


OK I am going to go into neutral on this one.
Still veering away from the shop.. but not aggressively...

Kenku

Fun food for thought... wouldn't a 9-port 20B end up with like, 3 ports on the big intermediate iron? I would pay to see someone make one, if only for the "WTF?!?" factor.

SPiN Racing

He he he I thought about the silliness of all the ports etc for like... 1 second.. then it hurt my head.. and I stopped..
We have enough problems balancing the airflow on a 6-port in N/A world with the tiny primaries.. imagine a 3-rotor.. and the manifold.. and the AHHHHHh my brain!!

Kenku

That does it, I'm making one. Hell, maybe even with renesis ports... *5* ports on that one plate!

Just have to make a new intake manifold. And convince Mazda.

krackerx7

iTrader: (1)

I would like to build a NA 20b in the future maybe with renisis rotors(would need someone to make a custom counter weight) with individual throttle bodies. That would be a fun project. or maybe put a roots style charger on there for alot of low end power. And since im dreaming lets twin charge the 20b a roots charger for the low end and a nice big turbo for the top end it would be one nice torque curve

RETed

WHY?

You sound like someone with too much time on their hands and thinks about things too much.

This sounds like someone who reads too much and does not get out enough...seriously.

Renesis rotors are a fricken waste of time.
Our 20B NA revs so fricken fast with the OS Giken triple plate that I doubt MORE COMPRESSION and LIGHTER ROTORS will give you any advantage.

The motor already makes so much low end power and torque, WHY would you bother twin charging it?
Is 500 lb-ft NOT ENOUGH torque for you???

Sorry for the rant, but too much people talk too much **** with no first hand experience with 20B's...
I need to go to sleep. :P



-Ted