20B: Engine Builder and Turbo Suggestions Needed!!!
09-25-08, 02:28 PM
#51
I think it would help you Jason to post your actual prices for these items. I also encourage all other vendors to join in and post up. Having more information helps to make a much more educated customer.
When you guys don't post your prices, it makes me feel as though you have something to hide. What risk do you have in posting this information unless your prices are considerably higher?
When you guys don't post your prices, it makes me feel as though you have something to hide. What risk do you have in posting this information unless your prices are considerably higher?
I think most people can get a good idea of what the pricing is. We are in the same ball park just cheaper on the rebuild.
99.9% of the people viewing this thread cant afford a 20B. For those that can I would prefer to discuss pricing over the phone or can provide a quote thru email. Depending on their budget I can suggest different ways to save money when doing this swap.
09-25-08, 02:42 PM
#52
Sorry haven't been following this thread......Actually our prices are less pretty much across the board. Are you really unable to follow a link?
The reason I shy away from posting prices on the forum is that 5 years from now I will get a PM or email wanting to know if these prices are valid. We have a website for pricing and we have a method for our quoting process which insures that the customer is being quoted what they need.
Our base rebuild is $438 less at $2500
Our porting starts at $750 but includes swapping out all the exhaust sleeves
3mm rotor machining is $50 less at $600 (for all three)
Drysump is all about the cost of parts
The small stuff is all about the similar within $25-$50 (less)
Balancing is not done on site so it is our vendor price +shipping and insurance we do not mark it up at all
Machining and porting services are not available if we are not building the engine.
Obviously the mounting hardware varies in costs, we prefer using a subframe and bumpsteer kit which is several hundred dollars less than Defined's kit, but that has nothing to do with the actual engine rebuild. I am not completely sold on the sectioned and shortened manifold until I see some dyno numbers as I have already asked for in Defined's subforum.
Both of you have two of the largest cases of buyers remorse I have ever seen. Gordon you just got your car back a few weeks ago and are already talking to Defined about swapping your subframe back to stock.
I am considering raising our prices to be more in line with other shops as the higher prices seem to be acceptable. Additionally this thread will not stop the not "serious" people from contacting us, we have quoted 4 people 20b rebuilds in the last two days, not one of them came to us via the forum.
The reason I shy away from posting prices on the forum is that 5 years from now I will get a PM or email wanting to know if these prices are valid. We have a website for pricing and we have a method for our quoting process which insures that the customer is being quoted what they need.
Our base rebuild is $438 less at $2500
Our porting starts at $750 but includes swapping out all the exhaust sleeves
3mm rotor machining is $50 less at $600 (for all three)
Drysump is all about the cost of parts
The small stuff is all about the similar within $25-$50 (less)
Balancing is not done on site so it is our vendor price +shipping and insurance we do not mark it up at all
Machining and porting services are not available if we are not building the engine.
Obviously the mounting hardware varies in costs, we prefer using a subframe and bumpsteer kit which is several hundred dollars less than Defined's kit, but that has nothing to do with the actual engine rebuild. I am not completely sold on the sectioned and shortened manifold until I see some dyno numbers as I have already asked for in Defined's subforum.
Both of you have two of the largest cases of buyers remorse I have ever seen. Gordon you just got your car back a few weeks ago and are already talking to Defined about swapping your subframe back to stock.
I am considering raising our prices to be more in line with other shops as the higher prices seem to be acceptable. Additionally this thread will not stop the not "serious" people from contacting us, we have quoted 4 people 20b rebuilds in the last two days, not one of them came to us via the forum.
09-25-08, 02:46 PM
#53
Gordan thanks for not putting up with this guys posts. I have tolerated Zayrx7 on many occasions in my other threads, and posts while trying to provide info. I think its very very obvious that he has some sort of grudge against us here at defined autoworks. Next time call us in person Zavier, I will gladly speak with you. I am not going to pound him into the ground (gordan did that well enough already), but I will say if it happens again the moderators will be notified. My apologies to everyone on this thread for having to see it, I dont want to add any other drama. Now back on topic.
09-25-08, 02:55 PM
#54
This is clearly the best way to gain business from potential customers.
09-25-08, 03:41 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by internal comsucktion engi
Jason I don't recall saying I was an expert on anything........Like I said there is quite a few things but my biggest issue with your 20B builds is engine placement. You almost need a cowl hood it sits so high not to mention the forward positioning. But if your customers like how you do things than more power to ya $$$$$......
-J
-J
Originally Posted by Banzai-Racing
I am considering raising our prices to be more in line with other shops as the higher prices seem to be acceptable.
Last edited by Juiceh; 09-25-08 at 03:51 PM.
09-25-08, 04:57 PM
#56
roti
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Defined Autoworks
The owner the recent 20B conversion from Defined should be able to set straight all the controversy. As far as RX-7 Store, this is not the good guy bad guy forum, so I won't say anything at all about it.
However, other than CLR, KDR, Mandeville, (that I've heard about, not to slight rotorsportsracing, or Banzai), without a doubt, Defined Autoworks has set the bar with the ability to drop the motor without disturbing the steering rack. There are many shops that can build a 3 rotor, my prior mechanic, Chris and Ari at Rotary Performance have proven their mettle in the RX-7 community, as well as those mentioned above.
Regardless who builds it, there are many items not listed, (as Gordon mentioned), that are needed to support the swap, that will drive the price up.
This car will definitely garner alot of respect, and its been truly a quality build.
However, other than CLR, KDR, Mandeville, (that I've heard about, not to slight rotorsportsracing, or Banzai), without a doubt, Defined Autoworks has set the bar with the ability to drop the motor without disturbing the steering rack. There are many shops that can build a 3 rotor, my prior mechanic, Chris and Ari at Rotary Performance have proven their mettle in the RX-7 community, as well as those mentioned above.
Regardless who builds it, there are many items not listed, (as Gordon mentioned), that are needed to support the swap, that will drive the price up.
This car will definitely garner alot of respect, and its been truly a quality build.
09-25-08, 05:56 PM
#57
Gmonsen
This is exactly how I hoped you would react. You do realize that redoing something over and over because you don't like how it was done or feel it can be done better is ........Buyers remorse . Along with comparing prices to something that you have already paid... buyers remorse
Set a few things straight, vendors are not here for your pleasure. Vendors pay to be on the site. I am first and foremost an Rx7 owner and have been since the early 90's and have been a member of this forum since 2001. I will not leave a thread because you tell me to.
How about you post up a detailed list of prices that you paid, this will be helpful to the original poster, otherwise you really have nothing useful to add to this thread.
Last edited by Banzai-Racing; 09-25-08 at 06:00 PM.
09-26-08, 12:42 AM
#60
I am sorry but a N/A 20b dyno is exactly that..... N/A (not applicaple) for any of our applications. Our 20B customers are looking for big numbers, we can give them 313 rwhp without changing the engine or removing the twins, hence a lot less money. Maybe I will revisit your kit when I see some more data.....as I said I am not completely sold, that does not mean that I have ruled it out
09-26-08, 05:49 AM
#61
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Wow, this has become a real shitstorm. Of course leave it up to the blind and ignorant to destroy a informative thread.
As far as the 41K is concerned. That is between Defined and the client. There is no hidden charges. On the price list Logan posted, is ECU listed? No. What about a clutch? Nope, I didn't see it. Hmmmmm, Fuel system? Let me look one more time, nope not on there. What about custom fabrication(not sure if I am allowed to let the secret out, therefore I won't). Well that isn't listed either. Add all of that up. Ecu, upwards of 5k(depending on unit, or he could have a pectel(10k), Fuel system, that can be pricey. If one has a swirl pot and a fuel cell, that is alot of AN fittings, all those small fittings add up.
Moral of the story, when you are clueless, don't make assumptions. It makes an *** out of you, NOT me.
Disclaimer: This post was not in any direct reference to anybody particulars post. Therefore, quoting my post and defending yourself will be pointless, as it will not warrant a response from me.
To the OP. Go with a 3 rotor semi-p port, with a GT-47R. You will not be disapointed. According to my opinions and research, with this set-up, you will achieve full boost(20+ lbs) by 5K.
Jackson
As far as the 41K is concerned. That is between Defined and the client. There is no hidden charges. On the price list Logan posted, is ECU listed? No. What about a clutch? Nope, I didn't see it. Hmmmmm, Fuel system? Let me look one more time, nope not on there. What about custom fabrication(not sure if I am allowed to let the secret out, therefore I won't). Well that isn't listed either. Add all of that up. Ecu, upwards of 5k(depending on unit, or he could have a pectel(10k), Fuel system, that can be pricey. If one has a swirl pot and a fuel cell, that is alot of AN fittings, all those small fittings add up.
Moral of the story, when you are clueless, don't make assumptions. It makes an *** out of you, NOT me.
Disclaimer: This post was not in any direct reference to anybody particulars post. Therefore, quoting my post and defending yourself will be pointless, as it will not warrant a response from me.
To the OP. Go with a 3 rotor semi-p port, with a GT-47R. You will not be disapointed. According to my opinions and research, with this set-up, you will achieve full boost(20+ lbs) by 5K.
Jackson
09-26-08, 06:46 AM
#62
Gtorx7 - I will keep an eye out for it
Gmonsen- Thanks for another long winded, yet irrelevant post, on this thread.
OP- Just go with an aggressive street port if you want a super fast street machine, drop in any medium to large frame turbo with a properly sized hot side, ie: do not go too small, and you will easily achieve your goals
Gmonsen- Thanks for another long winded, yet irrelevant post, on this thread.
OP- Just go with an aggressive street port if you want a super fast street machine, drop in any medium to large frame turbo with a properly sized hot side, ie: do not go too small, and you will easily achieve your goals
09-26-08, 10:20 AM
#63
As far as the 41K is concerned. That is between Defined and the client. There is no hidden charges. On the price list Logan posted, is ECU listed? No. What about a clutch? Nope, I didn't see it. Hmmmmm, Fuel system? Let me look one more time, nope not on there. What about custom fabrication(not sure if I am allowed to let the secret out, therefore I won't). Well that isn't listed either. Add all of that up. Ecu, upwards of 5k(depending on unit, or he could have a pectel(10k), Fuel system, that can be pricey. If one has a swirl pot and a fuel cell, that is alot of AN fittings, all those small fittings add up.
09-28-08, 08:34 AM
#65
Nearing Completion...
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WoW...well this thread definitely got a bit out of hand. Anyways, since I posted this I changed my mind for a final time LoL.
Decided to go N/A 20B with probably an aggressive race port and custom manifolds/piping courtesy of a good friend on this thread. Will be installing the 20B in the next weekend or so and then start fabbing everything up. At the moment, I plan on sending the engine over to AZRR for the N/A build. I decided that for the time being, I don't need the most power, but I definitely want the absolute best in reliability . I honestly expect that sometime down the line I'll switch over to a turbo set-up, but for now this will suffice...
Gordon: If you're seriously considering DA's sub-frame "kit", I'd highly recommend it! The only other option is to move the transmission and I was unwilling to do that. The idea of bumper-steer just didn't work for me, which is why I was extremelly grateful that Logan's "kit" was around when I made my decision.
Decided to go N/A 20B with probably an aggressive race port and custom manifolds/piping courtesy of a good friend on this thread. Will be installing the 20B in the next weekend or so and then start fabbing everything up. At the moment, I plan on sending the engine over to AZRR for the N/A build. I decided that for the time being, I don't need the most power, but I definitely want the absolute best in reliability . I honestly expect that sometime down the line I'll switch over to a turbo set-up, but for now this will suffice...
Gordon: If you're seriously considering DA's sub-frame "kit", I'd highly recommend it! The only other option is to move the transmission and I was unwilling to do that. The idea of bumper-steer just didn't work for me, which is why I was extremelly grateful that Logan's "kit" was around when I made my decision.
09-29-08, 07:31 PM
#66
this thread was too long, didn't read it all. so basically, if I wanted DA to do my 20b conversion, it would end up being between 25 and 30 thousand, counting the turbo kit, right?
