Why Coilovers?
01-22-09, 06:43 AM
#28
Lives on the Forum
Kentetsu your using them because you autox and are serious about it. Exactly the reason to have the setup you have.
I still maintain if your just using the car for the street (no racing involved) then coilovers are a waste because theres no real reason to adjust the ride on a regular basis.
I still maintain if your just using the car for the street (no racing involved) then coilovers are a waste because theres no real reason to adjust the ride on a regular basis.
So, in short, I don't agree that the only reason for coilovers is so that you can keep making changes all the time for different conditions. The parts themselves are an upgrade, and the adjustability allows you to set the ride height you want. Choosing your own spring rates gets you the ride quality you want. Even if you never touch them again after installation, you'll still have a much better handling car at the end of the day...
01-23-09, 09:50 PM
#29
Full Member
Thread Starter
I really need to get the coilovers and adjustable shocks as my king springs are killing my shock absorbers and the vibration keeps loosening my steering gear box, not to mention the very bumpy ride.
I contacted king springs and they said the spring rate for the lowered kit i have is 150lb/" front and 190lb/" rear?? Thier PDF says " for asthetics only (show cars) and may not be legal for street use" Billy said that the rears for coilovers are supposed to be half the front + 25 or 50.
I dont race my car and ride is very important, Its only the height that i care about.
With the coilovers what is the best spring rate for a smoother ride?
Thanks for all your input guys
I contacted king springs and they said the spring rate for the lowered kit i have is 150lb/" front and 190lb/" rear?? Thier PDF says " for asthetics only (show cars) and may not be legal for street use" Billy said that the rears for coilovers are supposed to be half the front + 25 or 50.
I dont race my car and ride is very important, Its only the height that i care about.
With the coilovers what is the best spring rate for a smoother ride?
Thanks for all your input guys
01-24-09, 02:46 AM
#31
Full Member
Thread Starter
01-24-09, 02:56 AM
#32
LOL, coil height makes a big difference. When I installed coilovers on Kgray's SA, he brought up a pair of really short springs he picked up somewhere. I think they were something like 5"/350 lbs. Nose of the car was on the floor with adjusters spun all the way up. I had an odd set of eBay springs that I bought for 10 bucks a few years ago for the hell of it, supposedly HKS drag launch springs for a 2nd gen. They weren't. Problem was, they were 10" tall and couldn't get the nose down. Had a 2-3" gap between the top of the tire and the fender lip. 
01-24-09, 04:26 AM
#33
Full Member
Thread Starter
LOL, coil height makes a big difference. When I installed coilovers on Kgray's SA, he brought up a pair of really short springs he picked up somewhere. I think they were something like 5"/350 lbs. Nose of the car was on the floor with adjusters spun all the way up. I had an odd set of eBay springs that I bought for 10 bucks a few years ago for the hell of it, supposedly HKS drag launch springs for a 2nd gen. They weren't. Problem was, they were 10" tall and couldn't get the nose down. Had a 2-3" gap between the top of the tire and the fender lip.
Anyone have a specific setup similar to what im aiming for? I really need some direction with this as i want to do it right!!
Just need to be able to adjust ride height and have a smooth ride when im cruising. Knowledge of a suitable Spring Rate/Height combination would be great
ps: I have been in contact with RS regarding this, Im benchmarking other experiences
01-24-09, 07:20 AM
#34
Since time was tight for Kevin, he took the car with the taller springs installed. He was happy with the results, other than the front sitting too high. For answers about springs that will meet your needs, ask Billy at ReSpeed, he'll get you set up.
What you need to decide is what your main driving focus will be. DD, autocross, roadracing, drag racing. How stiff do you want the ride quality to be, what other suspension mods have you done. Before going with coilovers, you should install poly bushings and sway bars. Those will make a huge improvement in handling/cornering. When I installed the first round of upgrades, shocks/struts. springs, polys and sway bars, all prior to the body kit and wheels, the car had no body roll on stock tires. Tires would exceed their slip angle , leading to understeer.
The specs you listed for the King springs are backwards from the norm and I suspect much stiffer than what you posted. The fronts should be heavier, say 225-275, the rears around 175. I prefer the Eibach Blacks on a stock setup. They are a progressive, not a linear spring. Unfortunately they are out of production. I have the Eibach Pros on the WB and linear springs on the FC. Both of them have adjustable struts/shocks. I really dislike the thumpy ride in the FC, the widebody rides much better. All of the coilover springs that I've seen are linear.
I never can remember what most setups are, but if you want a firm ride, just short of stiff, 275 front and 150 rear isn't a bad combo. Spring height for the front will depend on whether you get the race or street coilover set.
I've just about run out of steering, suspension and brake mods that I can do on the WB with a combination of ReSpeed Suspension Techniques and Mazda Comp parts. Only things left that I can change/install are coilovers, tri-link and panhard bar, and ReSpeed's rack and pinion system. I've spent more on suspension, steering and brake mods than most will spend on a full engine rebuild, lol. At this point, the handling is getting scary since I have no clue where the limits are anymore. It's so responsive and stable, I'm afraid to push the car and find out where the limits are, LOL.
What's installed so far is as follows:
Mazda Comp adjustable lower control arms and tension rods.
ReSpeed camber plates
ReSpeeds big brake kit with slotted/drilled rotors, TII/GXL/hard suspension calipers, front and rear, SS brake lines
Suspension Techniques sway bars, rear bar is adjustable
Eibach Pro springs
Black polyurethane bushings, full kit including upper control arms
SSR wheels 15X9 with 225/50/15" tires/wheels front, 15X10 with 245/50/15 rear
Tokico Illumina shocks/struts, adjustable
Power steering.
I do have a used panhard bar laying around, haven't decided on that one yet and not sure if I want the headache of installing a tri-link. While the WB is down for the winter, I've been thinking about trying retofit the 2nd gen brake booster and master brake cylinder to accomodate the BB kit. Since the FC booster is slightly larger in diameter than the FB one and won't clear the clutch master, I will need mount to the 2 masters away from each other, about 3/8" each, and hope that it doesn't skew the pushrods too much and cause any binding or unusal wear in thecup seats inside the masters.
That may be a project in and of itself, wtill mentally woprking out bugs. The FC brake master is near identical to the FB one, except the mounting ears are rotated 90*, as are the studs on the FC booster.
If I do swap to the FC booster and Master, I'll do a full documentation/writeup on it. Main difference between the FB/FC masters is the bore size. 13/16" vs. 7/8" Fun part is I'll need to make a new mounting plate, bolt/weld that to the firewall, then drill new holes to mount the pedal set, (perhaps) and the 2 masters.
Sorry for all of the off thread rambling, just typing out loud.
What you need to decide is what your main driving focus will be. DD, autocross, roadracing, drag racing. How stiff do you want the ride quality to be, what other suspension mods have you done. Before going with coilovers, you should install poly bushings and sway bars. Those will make a huge improvement in handling/cornering. When I installed the first round of upgrades, shocks/struts. springs, polys and sway bars, all prior to the body kit and wheels, the car had no body roll on stock tires. Tires would exceed their slip angle , leading to understeer.
The specs you listed for the King springs are backwards from the norm and I suspect much stiffer than what you posted. The fronts should be heavier, say 225-275, the rears around 175. I prefer the Eibach Blacks on a stock setup. They are a progressive, not a linear spring. Unfortunately they are out of production. I have the Eibach Pros on the WB and linear springs on the FC. Both of them have adjustable struts/shocks. I really dislike the thumpy ride in the FC, the widebody rides much better. All of the coilover springs that I've seen are linear.
I never can remember what most setups are, but if you want a firm ride, just short of stiff, 275 front and 150 rear isn't a bad combo. Spring height for the front will depend on whether you get the race or street coilover set.
I've just about run out of steering, suspension and brake mods that I can do on the WB with a combination of ReSpeed Suspension Techniques and Mazda Comp parts. Only things left that I can change/install are coilovers, tri-link and panhard bar, and ReSpeed's rack and pinion system. I've spent more on suspension, steering and brake mods than most will spend on a full engine rebuild, lol. At this point, the handling is getting scary since I have no clue where the limits are anymore. It's so responsive and stable, I'm afraid to push the car and find out where the limits are, LOL.
What's installed so far is as follows:
Mazda Comp adjustable lower control arms and tension rods.
ReSpeed camber plates
ReSpeeds big brake kit with slotted/drilled rotors, TII/GXL/hard suspension calipers, front and rear, SS brake lines
Suspension Techniques sway bars, rear bar is adjustable
Eibach Pro springs
Black polyurethane bushings, full kit including upper control arms
SSR wheels 15X9 with 225/50/15" tires/wheels front, 15X10 with 245/50/15 rear
Tokico Illumina shocks/struts, adjustable
Power steering.
I do have a used panhard bar laying around, haven't decided on that one yet and not sure if I want the headache of installing a tri-link. While the WB is down for the winter, I've been thinking about trying retofit the 2nd gen brake booster and master brake cylinder to accomodate the BB kit. Since the FC booster is slightly larger in diameter than the FB one and won't clear the clutch master, I will need mount to the 2 masters away from each other, about 3/8" each, and hope that it doesn't skew the pushrods too much and cause any binding or unusal wear in thecup seats inside the masters.
That may be a project in and of itself, wtill mentally woprking out bugs. The FC brake master is near identical to the FB one, except the mounting ears are rotated 90*, as are the studs on the FC booster.
If I do swap to the FC booster and Master, I'll do a full documentation/writeup on it. Main difference between the FB/FC masters is the bore size. 13/16" vs. 7/8" Fun part is I'll need to make a new mounting plate, bolt/weld that to the firewall, then drill new holes to mount the pedal set, (perhaps) and the 2 masters.
Sorry for all of the off thread rambling, just typing out loud.
01-24-09, 05:38 PM
#35
Full Member
Thread Starter
Since time was tight for Kevin, he took the car with the taller springs installed. He was happy with the results, other than the front sitting too high. For answers about springs that will meet your needs, ask Billy at ReSpeed, he'll get you set up.
What you need to decide is what your main driving focus will be. DD, autocross, roadracing, drag racing. How stiff do you want the ride quality to be, what other suspension mods have you done. Before going with coilovers, you should install poly bushings and sway bars. Those will make a huge improvement in handling/cornering. When I installed the first round of upgrades, shocks/struts. springs, polys and sway bars, all prior to the body kit and wheels, the car had no body roll on stock tires. Tires would exceed their slip angle , leading to understeer.
The specs you listed for the King springs are backwards from the norm and I suspect much stiffer than what you posted. The fronts should be heavier, say 225-275, the rears around 175. I prefer the Eibach Blacks on a stock setup. They are a progressive, not a linear spring. Unfortunately they are out of production. I have the Eibach Pros on the WB and linear springs on the FC. Both of them have adjustable struts/shocks. I really dislike the thumpy ride in the FC, the widebody rides much better. All of the coilover springs that I've seen are linear.
I never can remember what most setups are, but if you want a firm ride, just short of stiff, 275 front and 150 rear isn't a bad combo. Spring height for the front will depend on whether you get the race or street coilover set.
I've just about run out of steering, suspension and brake mods that I can do on the WB with a combination of ReSpeed Suspension Techniques and Mazda Comp parts. Only things left that I can change/install are coilovers, tri-link and panhard bar, and ReSpeed's rack and pinion system. I've spent more on suspension, steering and brake mods than most will spend on a full engine rebuild, lol. At this point, the handling is getting scary since I have no clue where the limits are anymore. It's so responsive and stable, I'm afraid to push the car and find out where the limits are, LOL.
What's installed so far is as follows:
Mazda Comp adjustable lower control arms and tension rods.
ReSpeed camber plates
ReSpeeds big brake kit with slotted/drilled rotors, TII/GXL/hard suspension calipers, front and rear, SS brake lines
Suspension Techniques sway bars, rear bar is adjustable
Eibach Pro springs
Black polyurethane bushings, full kit including upper control arms
SSR wheels 15X9 with 225/50/15" tires/wheels front, 15X10 with 245/50/15 rear
Tokico Illumina shocks/struts, adjustable
Power steering.
I do have a used panhard bar laying around, haven't decided on that one yet and not sure if I want the headache of installing a tri-link. While the WB is down for the winter, I've been thinking about trying retofit the 2nd gen brake booster and master brake cylinder to accomodate the BB kit. Since the FC booster is slightly larger in diameter than the FB one and won't clear the clutch master, I will need mount to the 2 masters away from each other, about 3/8" each, and hope that it doesn't skew the pushrods too much and cause any binding or unusal wear in thecup seats inside the masters.
That may be a project in and of itself, wtill mentally woprking out bugs. The FC brake master is near identical to the FB one, except the mounting ears are rotated 90*, as are the studs on the FC booster.
If I do swap to the FC booster and Master, I'll do a full documentation/writeup on it. Main difference between the FB/FC masters is the bore size. 13/16" vs. 7/8" Fun part is I'll need to make a new mounting plate, bolt/weld that to the firewall, then drill new holes to mount the pedal set, (perhaps) and the 2 masters.
Sorry for all of the off thread rambling, just typing out loud.
What you need to decide is what your main driving focus will be. DD, autocross, roadracing, drag racing. How stiff do you want the ride quality to be, what other suspension mods have you done. Before going with coilovers, you should install poly bushings and sway bars. Those will make a huge improvement in handling/cornering. When I installed the first round of upgrades, shocks/struts. springs, polys and sway bars, all prior to the body kit and wheels, the car had no body roll on stock tires. Tires would exceed their slip angle , leading to understeer.
The specs you listed for the King springs are backwards from the norm and I suspect much stiffer than what you posted. The fronts should be heavier, say 225-275, the rears around 175. I prefer the Eibach Blacks on a stock setup. They are a progressive, not a linear spring. Unfortunately they are out of production. I have the Eibach Pros on the WB and linear springs on the FC. Both of them have adjustable struts/shocks. I really dislike the thumpy ride in the FC, the widebody rides much better. All of the coilover springs that I've seen are linear.
I never can remember what most setups are, but if you want a firm ride, just short of stiff, 275 front and 150 rear isn't a bad combo. Spring height for the front will depend on whether you get the race or street coilover set.
I've just about run out of steering, suspension and brake mods that I can do on the WB with a combination of ReSpeed Suspension Techniques and Mazda Comp parts. Only things left that I can change/install are coilovers, tri-link and panhard bar, and ReSpeed's rack and pinion system. I've spent more on suspension, steering and brake mods than most will spend on a full engine rebuild, lol. At this point, the handling is getting scary since I have no clue where the limits are anymore. It's so responsive and stable, I'm afraid to push the car and find out where the limits are, LOL.
What's installed so far is as follows:
Mazda Comp adjustable lower control arms and tension rods.
ReSpeed camber plates
ReSpeeds big brake kit with slotted/drilled rotors, TII/GXL/hard suspension calipers, front and rear, SS brake lines
Suspension Techniques sway bars, rear bar is adjustable
Eibach Pro springs
Black polyurethane bushings, full kit including upper control arms
SSR wheels 15X9 with 225/50/15" tires/wheels front, 15X10 with 245/50/15 rear
Tokico Illumina shocks/struts, adjustable
Power steering.
I do have a used panhard bar laying around, haven't decided on that one yet and not sure if I want the headache of installing a tri-link. While the WB is down for the winter, I've been thinking about trying retofit the 2nd gen brake booster and master brake cylinder to accomodate the BB kit. Since the FC booster is slightly larger in diameter than the FB one and won't clear the clutch master, I will need mount to the 2 masters away from each other, about 3/8" each, and hope that it doesn't skew the pushrods too much and cause any binding or unusal wear in thecup seats inside the masters.
That may be a project in and of itself, wtill mentally woprking out bugs. The FC brake master is near identical to the FB one, except the mounting ears are rotated 90*, as are the studs on the FC booster.
If I do swap to the FC booster and Master, I'll do a full documentation/writeup on it. Main difference between the FB/FC masters is the bore size. 13/16" vs. 7/8" Fun part is I'll need to make a new mounting plate, bolt/weld that to the firewall, then drill new holes to mount the pedal set, (perhaps) and the 2 masters.
Sorry for all of the off thread rambling, just typing out loud.
Some may find it difficult to articulate technical experience textually but its invaluable for us newbs, so good job. When i got the email from the king springs "sales department" saying that the springs where softer in the front than the rear that raised an eyebrow? Billy also said to me that the front should be harder than the rear. So I think the king spring setup I currently have is totally wrong, and the rate is destroying everything in the chassis.
I have installed poly bushings all round and have swaybars, the front shock cartridges have been replaced twice due to failure and the rears are just stock disguised as "performance". So ill be sourcing some illumina's and there is a custom shop here in Oz that do coilover strut kits with an exchange for my struts cheaper than the US. Just have to get the correct rear coilover kit from Billy with the correct Spring rate.
Car is pure street, not racing, but i want a low profile ride that is comfortable and handles well. Its required for car shows as this is the popular style here.
01-24-09, 09:06 PM
#36
With a 7" GC springs,it was too stiff as it didnt have no play/rebound at all. then I switched to 8", and played with the coil over. It made a big difference in ride especially in LA's fucked up roads. It was in my FB with tokico adjustables (front and rear); the same front suspension that I'm currently using in one of my RX-3's.
01-24-09, 10:41 PM
#37
Full Member
Thread Starter
With a 7" GC springs,it was too stiff as it didnt have no play/rebound at all. then I switched to 8", and played with the coil over. It made a big difference in ride especially in LA's fucked up roads. It was in my FB with tokico adjustables (front and rear); the same front suspension that I'm currently using in one of my RX-3's.
01-25-09, 05:14 PM
#38
Lives on the Forum
Send a PM to "Bwaits" and tell him what you want out of the car.
He will advise you on a setup that will get you there. Why bother guessing when you've got a resident expert right here on the forum?
He will advise you on a setup that will get you there. Why bother guessing when you've got a resident expert right here on the forum?
01-26-09, 02:33 AM
#40
Full Member
Thread Starter
01-26-09, 11:08 PM
#42
Other reasons to adjust ride height on a road car, cruising with the guys, driving the Tail of the Dragon, Driving on dirt/rough roads, spirited mountain driving, then adjusting the balance of the car for better handling when raised or lowered for each usage.
Changes in passenger configuration, carrying loads home, lowering to catch looks at concours.....etc etc
Changes in passenger configuration, carrying loads home, lowering to catch looks at concours.....etc etc
02-20-09, 01:02 PM
#43
Lives on the Forum
The question was "Why Coilovers?", so here is a video to demonstrate the answer.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Kentetsu1
Mostly I put this video together to back up my opinion that you don't need bone jarring spring rates in order to get great handling and balance. Most people tell me that they want front rates around 450 Lbs. and I try to convince them otherwise. lol.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Kentetsu1
Mostly I put this video together to back up my opinion that you don't need bone jarring spring rates in order to get great handling and balance. Most people tell me that they want front rates around 450 Lbs. and I try to convince them otherwise. lol.
02-20-09, 10:50 PM
#48
Lives on the Forum
1. Customer service
2. Customer support
3. Involvement in Forum community
4. Outstanding quality
5. Outstanding after sales support
6. Willing to answer stupid questions, and guide people through their setup decisions.
7. Guided me step by step on my equipment selection, and nailed my setup spot on giving me exactly what I wanted on the first try (daily driver capable of kicking *** in CSP autocross).
8. Listens to what people in the forum want, and then gives it to them.
9. They say thank you when I give them credit in a Youtube video. Who else is gonna do that (besides Sterling)?
02-21-09, 12:08 PM
#50
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The question was "Why Coilovers?", so here is a video to demonstrate the answer.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Kentetsu1
Mostly I put this video together to back up my opinion that you don't need bone jarring spring rates in order to get great handling and balance. Most people tell me that they want front rates around 450 Lbs. and I try to convince them otherwise. lol.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Kentetsu1
Mostly I put this video together to back up my opinion that you don't need bone jarring spring rates in order to get great handling and balance. Most people tell me that they want front rates around 450 Lbs. and I try to convince them otherwise. lol.
a street car and a race car are different.