View Poll Results: What "WAS" the 1st Gen's biggest competitor?
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll
What's The 7's Biggest Competitor?
02-06-06 | 12:08 AM
#76
Cholo with the Bolo
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
From: Las Cruces, NM
We call my friend's base model the Butt Hatch. . . because it has a big *** of a hatch 
FCDrifter, you're very confused. The Chevette is anything but a sports car. There were plenty of "Hot Hatches" or "RallyeSports" in the seventies. The Golf was among them (Rabbit here).
The RX7 was BUILT as a sports car. It was built to directly compete with other SPORTS CARS of its day.
The Chevette was BUILT as an economy car, but it had an upper end sports model. It was not the other way around like you seem to think (Upper end sports model with economy cars based off of it).
It's nothing but a rallyesport, and not a sports car, like the FB, 280 ZX, Fiat, Toyota MR2, and all of them.
FCDrifter, you're very confused. The Chevette is anything but a sports car. There were plenty of "Hot Hatches" or "RallyeSports" in the seventies. The Golf was among them (Rabbit here).
The RX7 was BUILT as a sports car. It was built to directly compete with other SPORTS CARS of its day.
The Chevette was BUILT as an economy car, but it had an upper end sports model. It was not the other way around like you seem to think (Upper end sports model with economy cars based off of it).
It's nothing but a rallyesport, and not a sports car, like the FB, 280 ZX, Fiat, Toyota MR2, and all of them.
02-06-06 | 12:15 AM
#77
Play Well
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,218
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From: We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
Pictured is a 81 HRS. BUt I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Stats on the car are (and I correct my previous ones I was of a lil)
210 hp 2.3ltr DOHC NA with a getrag 5sp
Top speed 125mph
Suspension was a MacPherson strut front suspension with trailing arms, rear wheel drive with Panhard rod and coil sprung live axle
It was also the best selling british car until the festiva came out. And was discontinuded in 1983.
Stats on the car are (and I correct my previous ones I was of a lil)
210 hp 2.3ltr DOHC NA with a getrag 5sp
Top speed 125mph
Suspension was a MacPherson strut front suspension with trailing arms, rear wheel drive with Panhard rod and coil sprung live axle
It was also the best selling british car until the festiva came out. And was discontinuded in 1983.
02-06-06 | 12:19 AM
#78
Originally Posted by fcdrifter13
OMG please learn how to read. THE FB IS NOT A SPORTS CAR. Its an Economy sports model. which means it has sporty looks a decently good drivetrain and suspension which offered decent gas milage. But is far cheaper than an accual "sports" car. Dont believe me then check with your insurance agent. Now as far as comparing it to an Miata. Think before you type again. This certain chevette was made before (about 10 years) before that. We are talking about the late 70s before the hot hatch before group B.
Now I think most of you thought I was comparing it to the fc and other cars of that type. How could I. they werent even around then.
So here is the list of the cars this HSR was grouped with in other parts of the world besides the us
FB turbo
Turbo944
280zx
Fiat 1/9
and cars of that sort. Its not a super car. And i never said it was. If you wanna flame do so I dont really care. it dosnt bother me.
Now I think most of you thought I was comparing it to the fc and other cars of that type. How could I. they werent even around then.
So here is the list of the cars this HSR was grouped with in other parts of the world besides the us
FB turbo
Turbo944
280zx
Fiat 1/9
and cars of that sort. Its not a super car. And i never said it was. If you wanna flame do so I dont really care. it dosnt bother me.
I can read just fine, the thread is about a competitor for the FB and you brought into it a 4 door sedan built from an econo box in Europe that was available in various countries as a cheap family car. Then somebody shoehorned a bigger engine into it and whammo its a sports car, hmm. By the way I grew up around Holden and Isuzu gemini's in Australia and everybody over there put a rotary in them to go fast......still too heavy to beat my RX3 though.
Where the hell did you invent this economy sports car category, sports is sports is sports, price is irrelevant, MG midget was a sports car, AC was a sports car, Opel GT was a sports car.
IMHO a sports car is a 2 seater, fun to drive, nimble, agile and great looking fun car. In no way does a Opel Chevette fit this.
Oh and why are the current rally based cars death traps? They boast, power, reliablilty, fun, AWD, great brakes, solid built, great handling. I've owned a WRX and it was very quick, safe and predictable.
02-06-06 | 12:20 AM
#79
Play Well
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,218
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From: We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
ok then im gonna stop this right now.
If the Fb was built to compete with sports cars. Why is it not compared with the shelby cobra, GT40, Pantera, Ferrari GTO. Simple because it wasnt built to do that it was built to be affordable to the average person. Now the reason it was compared to the corvette was because that era of vette were fairly cheap and had relitivly low power numbers.
Thus the name "economy sport" just think about it. Can you FB run down a true sports car from that era. And I never called it a sports car so stop saying I did.
If the Fb was built to compete with sports cars. Why is it not compared with the shelby cobra, GT40, Pantera, Ferrari GTO. Simple because it wasnt built to do that it was built to be affordable to the average person. Now the reason it was compared to the corvette was because that era of vette were fairly cheap and had relitivly low power numbers.
Thus the name "economy sport" just think about it. Can you FB run down a true sports car from that era. And I never called it a sports car so stop saying I did.
02-06-06 | 12:22 AM
#80
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,118
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
When I was shopping for a sports car around 1982 I considered the choices: Corvette, Porsche 911, 924, 944, 928, Triumph TR-8, TVR, and possibly a couple others but the Chevette did not make the list--Sorry. I was looking for a sports car that could be driven daily. Reliability, interior cargo area, and fuel economy were a few of the reasons I picked the RX-7. I liked the fact that it was less expensive, but that was not a major consideration.
Given a choice of early RWD rally car I would go for a '75 Lancia Stratos and you can keep your Chevette.
Given a choice of early RWD rally car I would go for a '75 Lancia Stratos and you can keep your Chevette.
02-06-06 | 12:26 AM
#81
Resident Weasel
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 566
Likes: 1
From: Reno, NV
Originally Posted by fcdrifter13
OMG please learn how to read. THE FB IS NOT A SPORTS CAR. Its an Economy sports model. which means it has sporty looks a decently good drivetrain and suspension which offered decent gas milage. But is far cheaper than an accual "sports" car. Dont believe me then check with your insurance agent. Now as far as comparing it to an Miata. Think before you type again. This certain chevette was made before (about 10 years) before that. We are talking about the late 70s before the hot hatch before group B.
Now I think most of you thought I was comparing it to the fc and other cars of that type. How could I. they werent even around then.
So here is the list of the cars this HSR was grouped with in other parts of the world besides the us
FB turbo
Turbo944
280zx
Fiat 1/9
and cars of that sort. Its not a super car. And i never said it was. If you wanna flame do so I dont really care. it dosnt bother me.
Now I think most of you thought I was comparing it to the fc and other cars of that type. How could I. they werent even around then.
So here is the list of the cars this HSR was grouped with in other parts of the world besides the us
FB turbo
Turbo944
280zx
Fiat 1/9
and cars of that sort. Its not a super car. And i never said it was. If you wanna flame do so I dont really care. it dosnt bother me.
and you seem to want to argue just because
an economy 'sports' car eh
so let's lay it out
economy 'sports' car
junior 'sports' car
'sportscar'
super 'sports' car
the 2 mag articles I have on the SE tests (Car and Driver March 84) and (Motortrend 84) classify the FB as a 'sportscar' and compare it to the other current then 'sportscars' note: not 'super cars'
my insurance (progressive) classify my FB as a sportscar
decent gas mileage has never been associated with a rotary period
Kenichi Yamamoto considers his creation a 'sports'car
no one here has called the FB a supercar..so 'OMG' read the post first
even by your term economy 'sports' car
it's a sportscar of sorts..moot point indeed
and the Miata gets far better 'economy' than any 7 and is powered by an economy car engine..so it too is an economy 'sports' car
it's a matter of subjection
but I've yet to see a race with a field of Ford Escorts
however Cosworth Escorts..now you're talking
02-06-06 | 12:30 AM
#82
Cholo with the Bolo
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
From: Las Cruces, NM
Sorry, aussiesmg, I really didn't mean any offense by the 'deathtrap' thing. What I meant is that it's fast as hell, and there's the temptation to GO fast as hell, which is, if you're untrained, or underexperienced, and invitation for you to kill yourself :P
02-06-06 | 12:34 AM
#83
Play Well
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,218
Likes: 0
From: We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
OMG your getting screwed on insurance then. My FB is classified by state farm as an Economy soprts so my insurance is only 68 a month and that after my 2 car wrecks and being below age 25.
02-06-06 | 12:34 AM
#84
Why do you equate sports car with horsepower, why do you think they were built to race, they weren't, racing is just a logical progression by the vehicle owners and the factory in sports car racing.
For example IMSA where the 7 ate all comers including the Porsche and many other factory backed cars. In Australia the 7 won all five 12 hour Easter Production Group E races at Bathurst beating Porsche's factory effort, Vipers, Ferraris, BMW, and everything else that was thrown at them, then Allan Moffit won two Australian Touring Car Championships in 12a PP FBs against 700 HP V8s. Not a bad record for an "Economy" sports car.
I don't think the 7 has to prove a thing about its racing heritage against those cars you mentioned. Cobra GT40 and Ferrari were 60's cars so they couldn't compete (as you previously mentioned they were from a different era) Panterra couldn't have beaten a 7 in a race, too heavy and unreliable.
You haven't answered the economy sports car question yet, did you pull that out of your liddle butt...
For example IMSA where the 7 ate all comers including the Porsche and many other factory backed cars. In Australia the 7 won all five 12 hour Easter Production Group E races at Bathurst beating Porsche's factory effort, Vipers, Ferraris, BMW, and everything else that was thrown at them, then Allan Moffit won two Australian Touring Car Championships in 12a PP FBs against 700 HP V8s. Not a bad record for an "Economy" sports car.
I don't think the 7 has to prove a thing about its racing heritage against those cars you mentioned. Cobra GT40 and Ferrari were 60's cars so they couldn't compete (as you previously mentioned they were from a different era) Panterra couldn't have beaten a 7 in a race, too heavy and unreliable.
You haven't answered the economy sports car question yet, did you pull that out of your liddle butt...
02-06-06 | 12:42 AM
#85
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,118
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
check your facts
Originally Posted by fcdrifter13
ok then im gonna stop this right now.
If the Fb was built to compete with sports cars. Why is it not compared with the shelby cobra, GT40, Pantera, Ferrari GTO. Simple because it wasnt built to do that it was built to be affordable to the average person. Now the reason it was compared to the corvette was because that era of vette were fairly cheap and had relitivly low power numbers.
Thus the name "economy sport" just think about it. Can you FB run down a true sports car from that era. And I never called it a sports car so stop saying I did.
If the Fb was built to compete with sports cars. Why is it not compared with the shelby cobra, GT40, Pantera, Ferrari GTO. Simple because it wasnt built to do that it was built to be affordable to the average person. Now the reason it was compared to the corvette was because that era of vette were fairly cheap and had relitivly low power numbers.
Thus the name "economy sport" just think about it. Can you FB run down a true sports car from that era. And I never called it a sports car so stop saying I did.
Second, the RX-7 did in fact run down nearly all the sports cars it competed against, including the Ferraris. The Porsche 935 was the only real exception. The race results are a matter of historical record.
02-06-06 | 12:52 AM
#86
Originally Posted by fcdrifter13
OMG please learn how to read. THE FB IS NOT A SPORTS CAR. Its an Economy sports model. which means it has sporty looks a decently good drivetrain and suspension which offered decent gas milage. But is far cheaper than an accual "sports" car. Dont believe me then check with your insurance agent. Now as far as comparing it to an Miata. Think before you type again. This certain chevette was made before (about 10 years) before that. We are talking about the late 70s before the hot hatch before group B.
Now I think most of you thought I was comparing it to the fc and other cars of that type. How could I. they werent even around then.
So here is the list of the cars this HSR was grouped with in other parts of the world besides the us
FB turbo
Turbo944
280zx
Fiat 1/9
and cars of that sort. Its not a super car. And i never said it was. If you wanna flame do so I dont really care. it dosnt bother me.
Now I think most of you thought I was comparing it to the fc and other cars of that type. How could I. they werent even around then.
So here is the list of the cars this HSR was grouped with in other parts of the world besides the us
FB turbo
Turbo944
280zx
Fiat 1/9
and cars of that sort. Its not a super car. And i never said it was. If you wanna flame do so I dont really care. it dosnt bother me.
Ahem, look at your damn wikipedia article THEY ONLY MADE 400 HS and HSR'S!!!!
YOU ARE A MORON, your wikipedia article also stated it was unrefined although fast as hell. i.e. it was a death trap in the corners... Holy crap I had a buddy in high school who had a 302 in a chevette, it was fast as hell. But if you wanted to take a corner, you did so on hopes and dreams.
You cannot compare a car that only produced 400 units to a mass produced car...
What is your definition of a sports car? I dont give a rats *** what the insurance company says, they are as biased as a muscle car owner MY CIVIC IS MORE EXPENSIVE TO INSURE THAN MY 7!!!! Why? because there are ten billion civics out there, and 95% of them are riced out tuner ********. There arent very many Rx-7's out there (also it was more expensive to insure my 7 than my IROC) So go dig up some factual info and get back to me.......
In order to compete in rallying, the car had to be homologated, which in this sport meant that it had to be a production model derivative in order to be eligible. Thus Vauxhall motors manufactured the HS following the Blydenstein pattern for sale. The result was an incredibly fast, if rather unrefined road car, and while production was limited to around 400 only, they all sold like hot cakes. Like the Firenza, the HS was available only in silver, with less than subtle red highlighting and a bright red and black tartan interior. Some owners requested that their dealer have their car resprayed black, so there are a few black genuine HS Chevettes in existence.
The RX-7 is a true sports coupe design, as opposed to a sports car like the Triumph TR6 or a saloon with sporting intentions
The handling and acceleration of the car were noted to be of a high calibre for its day
The RX-7 made Car and Driver magazine's Ten Best list five times. In total, 811,634 RX-7s were produced.
The second generation RX-7 ("FC", VIN begins JM1FC3), still known as the "Savannah RX-7" in Japan, featured a complete restyling reminiscent of the Porsche 944. While the SA22/FB was a purer sports car, the FC tended toward the softer sport-tourer trends of its day.
Looks like your wikipedia bit you in the ***, so shut your mouth, you dont know what you are talking about.
02-06-06 | 12:57 AM
#87
Originally Posted by fcdrifter13
ok then im gonna stop this right now.
If the Fb was built to compete with sports cars. Why is it not compared with the shelby cobra, GT40, Pantera, Ferrari GTO. Simple because it wasnt built to do that it was built to be affordable to the average person. Now the reason it was compared to the corvette was because that era of vette were fairly cheap and had relitivly low power numbers.
Thus the name "economy sport" just think about it. Can you FB run down a true sports car from that era. And I never called it a sports car so stop saying I did.
If the Fb was built to compete with sports cars. Why is it not compared with the shelby cobra, GT40, Pantera, Ferrari GTO. Simple because it wasnt built to do that it was built to be affordable to the average person. Now the reason it was compared to the corvette was because that era of vette were fairly cheap and had relitivly low power numbers.
Thus the name "economy sport" just think about it. Can you FB run down a true sports car from that era. And I never called it a sports car so stop saying I did.
Muscle car
Super car
economy car
you dont know what the difference is.....
enclosed are two pics of Vauxhall Chevettes!
*note the biohazard sign, this car ran on garbage. Shortly after this pics it consumed itself.....
*The other pic is a base model brown Chevette
02-06-06 | 01:04 AM
#88
It was also the best selling british car until the festiva came out. And was discontinuded in 1983.
So let me guess next you will argue that the festiva was the second gens main competitor? jeezus kid, learn something valuble.
02-06-06 | 01:04 AM
#89
Play Well
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,218
Likes: 0
From: We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
No i got the economy sports thing from my insurance. Thats what my fb is under. But ok I give up. because you guys have blown this way otta preportion. I siad my piece and its out there its not worth getting angry over. Like some other people that have posted. And I am pretty sure most people who call a chevette **** 1: have never driven one that is in good shape 2:Cant drive. Why couldnt it handle. mind explaining that. has basically the same suspension as a fb. I feel that most opions are biased whereas i am not trying to be biased. I said the cars were made to compete with. Not that it was better or that I liked it more.
02-06-06 | 01:10 AM
#90
Cholo with the Bolo
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
From: Las Cruces, NM
I was about to say that it wasn't nice to offend his favourite car, but then I realized that he grouped OUR cars with Chevettes, Escorts, and 323's. For that, he deserves it.
BTW, you're wrong. That second pic is the super rare SH model of Chevette. It was only sold in suburbian neighborhood parks, and often came with a free poodle. One of the most common complaints were that it smelt too much of digested kibbles 'n bits.
BTW, you're wrong. That second pic is the super rare SH model of Chevette. It was only sold in suburbian neighborhood parks, and often came with a free poodle. One of the most common complaints were that it smelt too much of digested kibbles 'n bits.
02-06-06 | 01:14 AM
#91
Cholo with the Bolo
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
From: Las Cruces, NM
Why can't it handle? Center of gravity, weight distribution, suspension (there's good shocks, and there's bad shocks), shape of body, amount of pitch and yaw, and probably numerous other factors I'm forgetting.
02-06-06 | 01:20 AM
#92
Originally Posted by fcdrifter13
No i got the economy sports thing from my insurance. Thats what my fb is under. But ok I give up. because you guys have blown this way otta preportion. I siad my piece and its out there its not worth getting angry over. Like some other people that have posted. And I am pretty sure most people who call a chevette **** 1: have never driven one that is in good shape 2:Cant drive. Why couldnt it handle. mind explaining that. has basically the same suspension as a fb. I feel that most opions are biased whereas i am not trying to be biased. I said the cars were made to compete with. Not that it was better or that I liked it more.
) And I wouldnt know how it handled, since it was so pathetically underpowered.... so thank you for yielding, you know you got owned.... And the FB is better balanced, when they designed the Chevette they were dropping acid, so it weight distribution, not to mention center of gravity are all EFFED up. So yes the FB handles much better, it was designed to handle like a sports car, and I dont think the Chevette had a watts linkage, The Chevette had a softer suspension so the consumer wouldnt complain about ride quality. The Rx-7 is much stiffer in ride quality and has a lower stance, so yes you got owned.
02-06-06 | 01:25 AM
#94
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
From: Yumpenoffenhoff
My friend fcdrifter13 you found the answer! Alas only a few years too late. If only you could have told my counterparts who drove Porsche, Nissan, BMW, and Ferrari cars about this secret weapon... Perhaps they would have switched to Chevette and beaten the RX-7. Now I wonder why they were so stupid?
02-06-06 | 01:34 AM
#95
Resident Weasel
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 566
Likes: 1
From: Reno, NV
Originally Posted by fcdrifter13
OMG your getting screwed on insurance then. My FB is classified by state farm as an Economy soprts so my insurance is only 68 a month and that after my 2 car wrecks and being below age 25.
cough-ahem my 7 is classified as a 'sportscar' however due to it's current value(84) I pay about $36 a month
economy 'sportscar' indeed
and I must admit I thought you were using facts about the classifications, not errr what your insurance company says..wow
good day sir, good day!
fini'
02-06-06 | 02:30 AM
#97
Apprentice Guru
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,425
Likes: 0
From: Cloud Nine and Peak of God
While there is minimum accuracy in what fcdrifter has said, you must realize he is from the backblocks of West Virginia who has never seen these cars, never mind driven one, so please excuse his ignorance. At least he has sold his Starion for $200 so there must be hope yet.
The thumbnail, claimed to be a HRS of which only 45 were built, looks more like a upgraded HS of which 385 were sold. I totally disagree with his comment on the RX-7, but having driven a HRS I can say it was a great rally competition car, good power in the top 1,000rpm, and with far better suspension than stock. It handled rough dirt road sections well and could be accurately drifted at 100mph. However, the real cost of a well set up HRS was equal to five RX-7s, and with luck you got 4mpg and a set of tires would last a day.
The truth is what the poll results show, the competitor for the Gen 1 RX-7 was the the 280Z, and to a less extent the 944. The view of fcdrifter, that the Chevette was a competitor for the RX-7, is as far from the truth as to say West Virginia has great surfing beaches.
The thumbnail, claimed to be a HRS of which only 45 were built, looks more like a upgraded HS of which 385 were sold. I totally disagree with his comment on the RX-7, but having driven a HRS I can say it was a great rally competition car, good power in the top 1,000rpm, and with far better suspension than stock. It handled rough dirt road sections well and could be accurately drifted at 100mph. However, the real cost of a well set up HRS was equal to five RX-7s, and with luck you got 4mpg and a set of tires would last a day.
The truth is what the poll results show, the competitor for the Gen 1 RX-7 was the the 280Z, and to a less extent the 944. The view of fcdrifter, that the Chevette was a competitor for the RX-7, is as far from the truth as to say West Virginia has great surfing beaches.
02-06-06 | 10:36 AM
#100
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,118
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
What an individual buyer considers as an alternative purchase is not necessarily the same type of vehicle. But does that make it a competitor? If I am shopping for airplanes and decide instead to buy a vacation house, is the vacation house a competitor? In a sense it is--but we should keep this to automobiles. So in that sense, monster trucks and hopped-up Cortinas, Chevettes, and Festivas are competitors as much as a Ferrari 512 BB. Although, it should be noted RX-7s actually competed with the Ferrari 512 in organised races (and beat it).
The biggest problem with the poll is that it is not clear what is meant by "competition." One could interpret the question as relating to racing (IMSA), sales volume, or what other vehicle choices the individual RX-7 buyer might have considered.
The poll choices could also be improved. The F-body cars should be grouped together. The combined groups should at least be similar vehicle types, for example TVR and Lotus might be grouped together but not Opel or Renault sedans. Triumph TR-7/TR-8 could be a separate choice, as should Porsche 911 because they were sold in greater volume in North America. Smaller cars such as Fiat X1/9, MGB, and Triumph Spitfire might be grouped.
The biggest problem with the poll is that it is not clear what is meant by "competition." One could interpret the question as relating to racing (IMSA), sales volume, or what other vehicle choices the individual RX-7 buyer might have considered.
The poll choices could also be improved. The F-body cars should be grouped together. The combined groups should at least be similar vehicle types, for example TVR and Lotus might be grouped together but not Opel or Renault sedans. Triumph TR-7/TR-8 could be a separate choice, as should Porsche 911 because they were sold in greater volume in North America. Smaller cars such as Fiat X1/9, MGB, and Triumph Spitfire might be grouped.