stilettoman

iTrader: (1)

There sure is a lot of misinformation being thrown out here, such as the 944 didn't have a differential because it had a transaxle, and All the Porsches since 1948 had disc brakes. If anyone here can name a car with a front or rear transaxle that does not have a differential, I would like to hear about it.

As for disc brakes, the English used them for years before Porsche had them. My 1959 TR2 had them, the XKE Jag had them in 1960, and the first Porsche with discs was the Carrera 2 in 1962.

The drivetrain layout of the 924 in 1976 , with engine in front and transaxle in the rear, was stolen directly form the 1972 Alfa Alfetta, but was used earlier in Alfa race cars. It was originally used much earlier by Vincenzo Lancia in his very advanced Aprilia sedan in the 1930s, which set a new standard for handling in passenger cars.

I have not driven either at really high speeds, but my cousin is a very experienced racing driver, and he owned both the early RX-7 and a 924. He says the RX-7 was a nicer car all around, but that he was more comfortable with the stability and handling of the Porsche at speeds over 100 mph.

kleinke

You have a mis-application of Reasoning. Recall that the Porsche model in consideration is the 924/944. The 924 was from the outset a VW Audi mongrel and said to be undeserving of the badge, not a true Porsche. Likewise the 928 although far superior, broke with tradition to the extent it did not succeed.

Thus the less expensive, yet better-performing RX-7 had greater sales. The advice was often given to a potential sports car buyer, to choose based on value: the Porsche 928 at a higer price or Mazda RX-7 at the lower price-point. Those who "needed" a Porsche--for its name's sake--purchased a 911,...and there remained those determined to buy a Corvette against all logic.

kleinke

In fact the Porsche 924 had Drum rear brakes.

gsterror

Wanna get specific? I'd bet that even less people know what a laterally transversed boxer engine is than a rotary engine. And, as far as I know, all Porsche's deserving of the name (not the Volks' that you've defended thus far) had boxers.

I don't claim to be an expert on anything but rotaries (I was raised by a rotor-uncle), but I know a little bit about other car brands.
I also know that the 924/944 were NOT known for their reliability. That and the NON TURBO models (the models in question) were anemic in power and rich in weight.

kleinke

You may speak of your own car, but race results are a matter of historical record. From 1979 to 1985 and beyond, the RX-7 consistently dominated the Porsche 924/944 on road courses, and more often the Porsche 911, and even turbo versions.

LokiRx7.1

iTrader: (1)

I own a 944, it is extremely reliable, almost more so than my 7. Any car is and can be reliable if taken care of. I was wrong, A transaxle is used to set more weight to the rear of the car and improve balance. I forget that they do have a diff, 356's did use all wheel drums, and I actually didnt know that 924's had rear drums.
But 924's suck so badly who really cares... A 928 was a stab at the V8 market which failed, the car that was produced didnt live up to what Porsche wanted to achieve.

gsterror:
First 911's had rear wheel drive; rear engine setups, and are very difficult to drive. They do not handle as well as a 944 (although a new one with traction control might...) 356's were RR and Boxsters are MR as far as I know. The 944 924 and 968 were slant four cylinders. again that is to the best of my knowledge. The 928 had a V8, but it doesnt matter that less people know what a boxer engine is. If I look at a potential buyer and say its a V or Inline or Boxer or whatever, they dont give a crap. Now you say it has no pistons.... now its the unknown, something they know less about than a piston engine... My 944 is the 2.5 L N/A and it puts down about 130 HP, but it carves corners like a beast. I would rather have a 968 but they are getting far and few between.

As far as I'm concerned a 911 is a Porsche as is a 356, Untill the 911 is replaced by another RR car it isnt a true Porsche. But I still love my 944

I did screw up a little, but I am tired!! Leave me alone you technical bastards! Im going to bed I am too ******* old to be up this late. I havent seen 1:00 AM since the late eighties you *******!! okay I lied there Im not that old yet.... but I am tired cya later,
Chris

DriveFast7

iTrader: (1)

one of the first comparisons a car mag did (r&t I think) was z vs 7. 7 did a tad better.

inuissus_cendi

off topic, but I just had to point out that Fiat is Italian, Renault if French, and Opel is German. They're not British cars. Sorry but our ignorance towards the rest of the world bothers me. Now please, continue the debate.

PaulFitzwarryne

Not correct. The first review of the RX-7 by Road and Track compared it with the 280Z, Porsche 924, and Corvette. The overall winner was the 280Z on 1054 points, with the RX-7 on 1033, the Corvette on 957 and the 924 trailing badly on 858. The RX-7 performed marginally better than the 924, and only cost $7195 compared with $17,790.

The 924 was an attempt to cut Porsche costs by using Audi/VW engines and components, but failed badly in the market place and was quickly replaced by the much better 944 at an even higher price which was not in the same market as the RX-7. The 280Z remained the clear market leader, in part because of loyalty/reputation of the 240 and 260. If you needed speed and acceleration, then the Corvette was the car unless you wanted to waste money on a 928.

In the last review of the Gen 1 by Road and Track, of the new GSL-SE, the winner was the Honda CRX with comment that the RX-7 was showing its seven year age.

rbf41182gt

I found my april 79 issue of road and track-

Found an awesome article about jim mederer and racingbeat competing in IMSA

EDIT: paulfitz- thats the article i have! proof! all automatics though

old_skool

yup. i own an 84 rx-7 gsl-se and a 79 porche 924 (aka "the five-hundo...only paid 500 for it!). road race both. the porche DOES have the tranny in the rear (makes changing the clutch really easy!). both cars have their ups and downs, but the rx is tops in my book! i usually race the porche only at porche events or let buddies race it in open events, but i'll be damned if anyone (not even my dad) gets behind the wheel of me 7!!!

i do like to say i drive a porche though...just because the name has prestige (and the chicks like to hear it...when you're 21, that matters! lol)

Paradox

iTrader: (1)

good god! what century was that top gear episode from? lol

i still think, atleast in north american soil, the supra dominates the RX year for year (atleast in post 85)

Rotary Weasel

fearing the flaming..I like the Porsche 924S better than the 944..it has the 944's engine and less weight..being the last of the 924's it was noticeable superior but, bows to the 944 turbo obviously, and possibly to the last revised 944 n/a's

LokiRx7.1

iTrader: (1)

Supras just BARELY "dominated" 7's, and they are heavy as hell. I think 3400 lbs. and thats the base model, turbo's were pushing 4000 lbs. I like them though, very stable platform, although they had issues with running low on oil and developing lifter knock. (7M-GE/GTE) (MKII)

LokiRx7.1

iTrader: (1)

924 Porsche Carrera GT, search it, factory race car. Or I have been told at least, in race form they had like 400 hp I dont know what they produced in street trim. Pretty sure they are turbo'd to boot. But overall I think the 924's got the shittier version of a 944 engine

jfachner72

I realized my mistake right after i made the poll........

Oh and i dont think opel is german.

It wasnt ignorance just lack of space and a typo.

Thanks for pointing out to everyone.

Jay

stilettoman

iTrader: (1)

"Oh and i dont think opel is german.

It wasnt ignorance just lack of space and a typo."


Opel is just a German as Mercedes and Porsche. GM bought Opel long ago. Opel is the GM brand name in Europe, except for that big island off the coast of France, where they have Vauxhall:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel

CrazyJoe12a

Go check out any SCCA roadrace, particularly the ITS class. Typically, the Rx-7 and 280Z are the front runners, out pacing the Porsches.

And did anyone else notice the FC in the video had a distributer instead of a CAS? Must've been a pretty early car.

jfachner72

See thats the biggest problem with the forums.

If i would have put "european" cars some one would have probably made a comment that it should have been "euroasia" or something else totally rediculous.

The thread was started to compare cars of the day is i wanted to be critiqued i would have made the "Here is a new post please tear it apart and post how you would have made it better"

The point is that everyone knew what i meant by the choice in the poll what was your gain by correcting me???


Jay
1984 FB

Snapshot

In SCCA racing I've seen 240-260Zs going at it head to head w/ 1st gen 7s on an 8 turn road course (Roebling Road Raceway) forever. Sweet!
My Z:

wmac

It depends on what you mean by "competition." The 1980 IMSA GTU season saw the Racing Beat #7 and #17 RX-7's take the season championship, driver's championship (Walt Bohren and Jeff Kline), and manufacturer's championship. The guys at Racing Beat say their biggest competition was Dennis Aase in his Porsche 911 and Don Davendorf in the Electramotive Datsun 280ZX. Paul Newman also gave them hell in his BSR 280ZX. There were some 240Z's, 914/4's and 6's, an Alfa Romeo Alfetta and GTV, Toyota Corolla and even a Lancia Stratos. Wayne Nunnally did campaign a Porsche 924, but DNF any of his entries.

Classic Motorsports magazine has commissioned a painting by world famous motorsports artist, Hector Cadematori, to illustrate the battle at Road Atlanta where the 1980 season began and ended.

The painting image will be the official artwork for the Classic Motorsports Mitty Presented by Mazda that will happen at Road Atlanta April 28-30 2006.

You can get more information about the event here:

https://www.rx7club.com/se-rx-7-forum-35/rx-7-featured-road-atlanta-506147/

The RX-7 DOMINATED the IMSA GTU class and took the championship each year from 1980 to 1987. Some of the other cars that got beat by RX-7 during those years were:

Renault Le Car Turbo
BMW 320i
Toyota Celica
Mazda RX-2
Audi 80 Coupe
Datsun 200SX

It wasn't until 1983 that a Porsche 924 Carrera GTR gave any competition. But that was the year Jim Downing came on the scene with his superb driving skills and took the championship with his RX-7.

In 1984, a guy named Elliot Forbes-Robinson began to give the RX-7 a lot of competition with his 924 Carrera GTR - but it wasn't enough. That year, a Pontiac Fiero entered the class along with a Pontiac Firebird. A Toyota Supra entered a race, but didn't do very well.

Surprisingly, 1985 proved the Fiero to be a tough competitor when Bob Earl won several races during the latter part of the season - enough to give him fourth place in points for the end of the year standings. But it was Chris Cord in his Toyota Celica who gave the most competition for the RX-7.

1986 was a battle between the RX-7 and the Pontiac Fiero as they swapped wins throughout the year. Ultimately, the RX-7 was again victorious for the end of the year points championship.

1987 introduced the Nissan 300ZX, but it did not have enough to fight the 911, Fiero, and mighty RX-7.

Oddly enough, the RX-7's string of championships ended in 1988 when a Chevy Baretta squeezed out enough consistant finishes to take top honors.

So, there you have it. Competition? Ha! Race results don't lie - THE MAZDA RX-7 WAS THE BEST CAR IN IT'S CLASS.

cosmicbang

If you look at the IMSA results from 1980-1985, you will see that the RX-7 also regularly beat the Porsche 911, Corvette and BMW M1.

RX-7s competed in both GTU and GTO. Often, even the GTU RX-7's beat the GTO Corvette, Camaro, Buick Regal Turbo, M1, Porsche Carrera, etc. Race results don't lie.

wmac

... and we all know what happened in '87 at LeMans.

PaulFitzwarryne

Competion? The 280Z easily outsold the RX-7 in the USA. In 1979 86,000 were sold as against 54,000 for the RX-7 in one of its best sales years.

cosmicbang

The Z and RX-7 were not the only vehicles sold by their respective manufacturers and dealers, and those other vehicles in the product mix are a big part of the equation. Consider the established US presence of Datsun/Nissan and the status of the Z cars prior to 1979, the size of Nissan vs. Mazda, the number of Mazda vs. Nissan dealers, the number of other vehicles sold by each, etc. ...

True, there may have been more Z cars sold, but don't you think the Z-car dealers saw any lost revenue in the RX-7 numbers?

Year Z-car RX-7
1970 15,988
1971 18,290
1972 34,605
1973 47,199
1974 63,963
1975 31,151
1976 55,199
1977 67,331
1978 62,699 19,299
1979 86,007 54,853
1980 55,625 43,731
1981 64,487 43,418
1982 59,853 48,889
1983 68,575 52,514
1984 71,617 55,696
1985 67,555 53,810
1986 56,997 56,243
1987 38,847 38,345
1988 22,232 27,814
1989 23,918 16,249
1990 22,663 9,743
1991 16,833 6,986
1992 11,356 6,006
1993 8,812 5,062
1994 7,040 2,210
1995 4,351 1,399

Note that 1979 represented the introduction of the new 280ZX model, 1984 the 300ZX, and 1990 the fourth-generation Z-car.