turbo sizing for 12a??
03-18-07, 09:42 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by 81WideMariah
ok...did some more research...and from what i've gathered i should have no problem using a t3..a/r of .48... and either a 50 trim for the cold side..or if i want to leave growing room I can go with a Super 60 (60 trim)... this should flow plenty to get me to my HP goals... also like the idea of using a v-band for DP conection...makes life MUCH easier.. now i'm going to have to find the best deal....
out of curiosity.... i'm not sure how we should measure displacement on our engines... should we just go with the static displacement of 1.2 aprox?? or should we use the method used to class our engines in racing series.. if i recall correctly they multiply our satic displacement by 3... as there ar 3 faces to the rotor and the engine is constantly on a power stroke... what do you think guys? because i based the above numbers on the static displacement...
out of curiosity.... i'm not sure how we should measure displacement on our engines... should we just go with the static displacement of 1.2 aprox?? or should we use the method used to class our engines in racing series.. if i recall correctly they multiply our satic displacement by 3... as there ar 3 faces to the rotor and the engine is constantly on a power stroke... what do you think guys? because i based the above numbers on the static displacement...
if i get motivated ill place a call tomorrow to see what of their turbos other 12a owners have used.
03-19-07, 01:06 AM
#27
love the braaaap
It seems a real good starting place on a 12A turbo is with a 2nd gen turbo. They are quite capable of producing enough power for your needs I think. I've heard of 250rwhp on S4 stock turbo at 13 or 14 psi, mind you it won't last too long. The S5 turbo would be a better choice. Also, the stock wastegate is quite puny, but it can be ported out pretty big. 225rwhp is definately in reach even with a S4 I think.
I've personally got a S4 turbo that I'll be slapping on the 88 6 port that sits in my 82 right now. It won't be till next winter most likely, but that turbo with a large intercooler and about 10-12 psi should net me enough power to keep me quite happy, and put me in the 13's in the 1/4. BTW, I got the turbo for $30 with very minimal shaft play and no physical damage. I'll rebuild it anyway, but as it is it could produce 10psi without a problem.
I've personally got a S4 turbo that I'll be slapping on the 88 6 port that sits in my 82 right now. It won't be till next winter most likely, but that turbo with a large intercooler and about 10-12 psi should net me enough power to keep me quite happy, and put me in the 13's in the 1/4. BTW, I got the turbo for $30 with very minimal shaft play and no physical damage. I'll rebuild it anyway, but as it is it could produce 10psi without a problem.
03-19-07, 12:22 PM
#28
Originally Posted by Sgt.Stinkfist
for compressor flow, i had the best luck using 1146cc x 2 (2.3l or 140ci) for displacement
even with figuring a dispalcement of 2.3L it still suggests a 50 trim with an A/R of 0.48... I understand that this chart is more than likely based on piston engines..but undeniably when it comes down to it... flow is flow whether it's pumped through cylinders or rotor housings... and i just don't understand how a piston engine dispalcing 2.3L flows significantly less than a rotary of a similar size.... I hate to sound like the devil's advocate, but those of you that have posted to this thread may or may not have noticed that there have been more than 300 views of this thread. That means that there are people checking this out looking for knowledge, and I feel like we owe it to them to back up any statements we make with fact/proof. It's all to easy to spout of numbers of "my buddy said this.." or " I know a guy that ran this..." but in reality alot of what is said on this forum is taken as truth with little to know proof, and when dealing with forced induction it is all to easy for things to go bad quickly, and I for one would feel horrible if I gave some bad advice and caused someone to pop their motor.
03-19-07, 01:26 PM
#29
I have yet to see a turbo installed and working on a rotary with less than a 0.84, and it only goes up from there. One thing that you may be neglecting in your calcs is the rpm differences between rotays and pistons. Where a piston is hitting it's peak torque, we are just beginning to breath for power. By the time a rotary hits peak hp, a piston sized turbo is out of breath and pumping hot air, very bad for use on a rotary.
03-19-07, 10:28 PM
#30
Originally Posted by trochoid
I have yet to see a turbo installed and working on a rotary with less than a 0.84, and it only goes up from there. One thing that you may be neglecting in your calcs is the rpm differences between rotays and pistons. Where a piston is hitting it's peak torque, we are just beginning to breath for power. By the time a rotary hits peak hp, a piston sized turbo is out of breath and pumping hot air, very bad for use on a rotary.
i'll let you know what i figure out..
03-19-07, 11:03 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by 81WideMariah
thanks for the info...i wasn't sure but it seemed like a fair assumption.. i mean the static displacement of our engines doesn't really shed light on the ammount of CFM they flow... i think i' going to re-evaluate myt above numbers... I dunno an A/R of 1.00 seems REALLY big i mean if you had a T04E with a 60 trim and an A/R of 0.63 you should flow enough cfm to make 400+hp... an A/R of 1.00 just seems like overkill, unless i'm missing something??? i'm figuring this off of Turbonetics' Turbo Matrix page.... here's the linky: http://www.turboneticsinc.com/downlo...urboMatrix.pdf
even with figuring a dispalcement of 2.3L it still suggests a 50 trim with an A/R of 0.48... I understand that this chart is more than likely based on piston engines..but undeniably when it comes down to it... flow is flow whether it's pumped through cylinders or rotor housings... and i just don't understand how a piston engine dispalcing 2.3L flows significantly less than a rotary of a similar size.... I hate to sound like the devil's advocate, but those of you that have posted to this thread may or may not have noticed that there have been more than 300 views of this thread. That means that there are people checking this out looking for knowledge, and I feel like we owe it to them to back up any statements we make with fact/proof. It's all to easy to spout of numbers of "my buddy said this.." or " I know a guy that ran this..." but in reality alot of what is said on this forum is taken as truth with little to know proof, and when dealing with forced induction it is all to easy for things to go bad quickly, and I for one would feel horrible if I gave some bad advice and caused someone to pop their motor.
even with figuring a dispalcement of 2.3L it still suggests a 50 trim with an A/R of 0.48... I understand that this chart is more than likely based on piston engines..but undeniably when it comes down to it... flow is flow whether it's pumped through cylinders or rotor housings... and i just don't understand how a piston engine dispalcing 2.3L flows significantly less than a rotary of a similar size.... I hate to sound like the devil's advocate, but those of you that have posted to this thread may or may not have noticed that there have been more than 300 views of this thread. That means that there are people checking this out looking for knowledge, and I feel like we owe it to them to back up any statements we make with fact/proof. It's all to easy to spout of numbers of "my buddy said this.." or " I know a guy that ran this..." but in reality alot of what is said on this forum is taken as truth with little to know proof, and when dealing with forced induction it is all to easy for things to go bad quickly, and I for one would feel horrible if I gave some bad advice and caused someone to pop their motor.
as mentioned the .86 or higher is much more useful it wont fall on its face. you have to realize that those matrix are overall useless for you. you would be better off looking at say something like a v8
one of my buddies at turbonetics reccomended the gtk550 just for your info.
03-22-07, 04:03 PM
#32
Originally Posted by 2cute
you have to realize that all those matrixs are designed for piston motors. the rotary is totally different. the exhaust is not even remotely the same.
as mentioned the .86 or higher is much more useful it wont fall on its face. you have to realize that those matrix are overall useless for you. you would be better off looking at say something like a v8
one of my buddies at turbonetics reccomended the gtk550 just for your info.
as mentioned the .86 or higher is much more useful it wont fall on its face. you have to realize that those matrix are overall useless for you. you would be better off looking at say something like a v8
one of my buddies at turbonetics reccomended the gtk550 just for your info.
03-22-07, 05:57 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by 81WideMariah
hey 2cute thanks for getting back to me with that info... i've been busy with work ao i haven't been back to check this thread in awhile.. and i totally get the flow dynamics of our exhaust.. essentially it's a continues flow as how there's no valvetrain to interupt.. and i really wasn't taking that into acount.. i seem to have found myself a nice little t4 with a .86 a/r on the hot side and 50 trim on the cold side...i think this should work out nicely..with a little room to grow if i decide to pin the engine or port it bigger... thanks for everyones input... and be on the look out for my project thread coming soon...
how come you get all the cool toys mel???... you finaly break down and sel one of your 13 cars??..lmao!! seriously though looks top notch..is it t04? 70 trim?..
03-23-07, 04:12 PM
#42
Originally Posted by 81WideMariah
i hear ya Mr. Bridgey....and if it were up to Wacky I'd be spoolin' a 70 trim...I love you guys..always finding new ways to spend my money... 
Wacky, nice shiney bling bling. Mind if I ask what those set you back and where you sourced them?
03-24-07, 03:19 PM
#44
Originally Posted by trochoid
Wacky, nice shiney bling bling. Mind if I ask what those set you back and where you sourced them?
03-25-07, 12:50 PM
#47
I'm pretty much set on getting a Master Power, there's a local distributor/importer in Miami, and the price is right just over $500 for the T04 equivalent i'm picking up...he said that Garret internals will fit inside the Master Power housings with a little modification and that if I wanted to upgrade to BB he'd charge another 150 bucks...sounds like a steal to me 
Last edited by 81WideMariah; 03-25-07 at 12:52 PM. Reason: typo...
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