Keith13b

iTrader: (6)

Looking for some advice and experienced opinions on what to do for this years project. I am tossing ideas around and was wondering if people with experience could chime in. I have searched and found a lot of info, but some of it is conflicting. So I'm looking for some clean opinions/guidance/common sense replies. Please don't litter my thread with "search" posts!

My goal will be building a S5 TII motor to drop in my GSL-SE. I will be building it from the ground up with a good condition S5 N/A motor (easy on the reply button...). I have pondered ordering a Jspec TII motor from an importer and doing the typical swap, but have read nothing but horror stories about getting those blocks - so I'll start with what I have and go from there -what I have is a N/A motor - don't hate me - help me! I still might do the import thing if I can't figure this out.

Anyway - my options are this. Please comment on what you think I should do:

1. Build a S5 high compression motor and use TII 4-port plates

2. Build a S5 high compression motor and use FD 4-port plates

3. Build either of the above AND use a TII rotating assembly for lower compression; making a traditional TII block.

I plan on using a standalone to run it all. Wasn't sure if people had good luck with high compression rotors on a turbo - I've read plenty of 6-port N/A turbos, but they all look like hack jobs and the threads are more full of useless comments then good guidance. What can I really expect from a high compression turbo?

Also - since I will be needing to buy the complete intake - Should I go S5 TII or go with an FD intake. I need to search to see if the bolt patterns are different, but if you know off the top of your head - feel free to post it! I know an adaptor might be needed for the FD and the FD TB flows better........S5 TII is a direct fit. If I get FD plates, the FD intake should line up.....What do you think? Availability of parts plays a big role, but is the FD hassle woth it?

Already have the TII tranny, modified driveshaft, oil pump and pressure reg, and other swap components. I know what is needed and I'm really looking for advice on just the motor itself.

For the standalone, should I buy OEM sensors and get the plug and play kit, or just buy new sensors sold by the standalone manufacturer?

The sky is the limit on this project and I'm trying to come up with $$ budget based on what I choose to do. I'd like to do it right the first time, and I am doing as much homework as I can before I start buying the parts. The engine is a spare so I can crack it and re-build it anytime, so my first order of business is to figure out what rotors and plates to start off with. Once the engine is assembeled, I can start buying up the other intake parts, etc.

Please provide any positive comments or constructive criticism.

My goals are to achieve 350+ RWHP for a weekend car that will see occasional autoX'ing. Suspension, brakes, etc, have all been upgraded. I saved the best for last.

rxtasy3

iTrader: (2)

contact member bad 83. i think he's currently running na rotors.

81WideMariah

iTrader: (8)

Hey Keith.... sounds like a fun build for sure.... I elbows deep in 2 engines as we speak... one for a buddy's Lotus Super 7 he's built from scratch in his garage and my 12a blowthrough.... just need to set the end play on his, once he brings me the flywheel back from re-surfacing.

Anyways, the next build will be turboing my kid brother's S4 6 port and I've been doing some homework regarding this exact set-up. From what I gathered running th high comp rotor is no different than going blow through on a 12a. With power goals you have, it's completely doable with high comp rotors. Hell I was just over at 2 FAST and they were pulling a Renesis out of an 8 that was running 12 psi of boost to swap for a 20b... and those things have WAY higher compression than an S5.

The biggest issue I can see you running into will be fitting an intake manifold to this beast. The bolt patterns for an N/A... T2... and FD are all different. So some sort of adapter will definitely be necessary. You will also lose the functionality of the Aux Ports which is kinda a bummer. This is the reason on the build I'll be tackling will go carb/blowthrough. This will allow the use of the Aux Ports and simplify the install/wiring. Not sure if you can swap end plates to go 4 port.... but if you're going to go through all that might as well just get a T2 longblock.

PercentSevenC

Lots of opinions on compression ratios. People do run the high compression rotors with turbos successfully. You can't run as much boost, but you'll make somewhat more power at the same boost pressure. Off-boost performance will be a bit better with the NA rotors. Personally, I'd run an S5 TII or REW rotating assembly as they're lighter than S4 and will give you the lower compression ratio for more powah.

Intake manifolds: the REW LIM will not work on a TII block. You'd need a spacer to adapt the TII LIM to the FD UIM. IIRC, peejay said he port-matched an S4 NA intake manifold to a TII block because he liked the way it flowed better than the TII manifold and didn't want the extra height that a proper REW UIM adapter would require.

Another thing to consider is that S4 rear irons are prone to cracking at high boost. At 350 WHP it's not likely to be an issue, but something to keep in mind when picking parts.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

To keep things simple, use the intake that matches the block. You can swap the 6-port end irons for 4-port ones then use the corresponding series intake that matches. Using hi-comp rotors just takes more careful tuning.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i wouldn't mind using the 6 port block and intake, but i'd run the turbo rotors. ive seen a back to back dyno of a 9.7 engine and the 9.0, the 9.0 made more power, because the 9.0 engine can be tuned for power, while the 9.7 has to be tuned to not blow up. ymmv...

the FC engines all have the same bolt pattern for the intake, the 6 port and turbo obviously have different port/runner configurations. the FD is different.

i think its been proven that the NA manifolds are slightly better, the bend into the engine is less severe than the turbo engines. the FD intake, is really long, its designed for good midrange/low end.

the sensors are up to you, i like the OEM ones, but the GM ones seem to work just as well.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

A lot of good advice on this thread.

Your main questions need to be.
1) What is the ultimate HP goal you want (BTW -350whp is plenty)
2) What fuel is available to you.

If you want 350whp (and don't want more later) - Use the stock
S5 Engine, S5 Intake, and Turbo Rotors.

If you plan to use C16 or e85, then Go ahead and keep
the stock NA Rotors as well.

If you want more power down the road - Get a full S5 TII
or better Engine and Intake - as the plate thickness around
the dowels will begin to matter.

Some more Food for thought. 350 whp seems to be the limit of the factory
FB rear end without drag racing abuse. 350 seems to be a "magic number" where you can keep all or most of the
wheels/brakes/diff from a first gen, without having to upgrade everything and adding weight.
Also, at 350, the engine should last a real long time without any problems.
Also note that The TII Tranny's get noisy around 400whp, and break routinely at 450hp.

If I were to do it all over again, I would have built for 350hp. I wouldn't have needed a cage, or Ford Rear end,
and The car could have been easily 500lbs lighter, and my wallet $5000 thicker.
I'd also be driving the car alot more, since it would be more of a Daily Driver instead of an all or nothing compromise.

As far as your ECU, - use whatever ECU your Tuner uses, and the ECU brings it's own sensors.

Good Luck, and let us know what you decide. Take Lots of Pictures!

82transam

iTrader: (18)

Funny that the JDM engines get such a bad reputation. I have one in my T2 Fb and its been there for 4 years now and nearly 10,000 miles with no issues. I also have a JDM engine in my FC and while its only been a few months, it fired right up, and hasn't let me down yet.
Just wanted to chime in with my experiences there since not all JDM engines are bad
Also, I'm not sure about by you, but near me there aren't enough roads/situations to warrent much more than stock T2 levels. You might be surprised how quick ~200hp makes a FB.

Keith13b

iTrader: (6)

Thank you all for your input - keep it comming!


Agreed!

330-350whp is all I really need, above that will be difficult to keep the tires on the ground. I'm not looking for insane #'s, but I am looking for a reliable, conservative broad peak of 350. As far as fuel, 93 or 100 octane is all I can get my hands on.

Thats what i'm leaning towards, but looking into all options.

Ahh, my homework paid off- my goals are not that ironic!

Anyone know a good tuner in central Florida?

Already there, and looking for more!

81WideMariah

iTrader: (8)

Keith.... check out Robert at 2 Fast... he's got a 224 XLC Dynojet and uses Microtech.... he builds some crazy 20b's and has some really potent 13b's... PM me and I can give you his cell phone number.