timmya2

actually just the other day a 19 year old got killed after giving the alleged attackers his phone they still ran after him and bashed him to death..

u have to remeber australias population is only 20 million..

thats nothing compared to americas population..

now im not taking any sides here.. but i think australia should be just as ashamed with its crime rate and furthermore to the stupidity of the australian people of voting for a liberal..

sorry

REVHED

lol Of course bad **** happens here just like anywhere else. But saying Australia's crime rate comes even close to the worst cities in the US is ridiculous.

REVHED

BTW, just so no one gets the wrong idea I'm not attacking the US. I'm just saying that Australia has many of the same qualities that make the US a great country but without some of the bad things. Fair enough?

Felix Wankel

Yeah, you just drive on the wrong side of the road

I carry a gun too, but it would take a *LOT* to get me to actually take it out, much less shoot someone with it. Mainly its a last-ditch, no-other-options way for me to protect my wife and child. Anyone attacking a woman or an infant doesn't deserve to be on the planet in the first place.

My main tactic is the old "get the **** out fast" technique. I hate fighting, I'm too little for all that.

timmya2

btw thanx revhead for the precious tips u have given me..


i love u man

jk..

i like u.. (not sexually)

REVHED

You keep this up and I might be forced to rethink my position on guns and their intended usage.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

Who woke this guy up??

In my defense, I should point out again, that I'm not advocating getting out of the car and starting to fill people with lead, which sounds vaguely like you were doing in your situation. My example chosen was a victim getting pounded while still strapped into his car...the van the Samoan was driving was in front of our hero who chose to eliminate the Samoan's gene pool from our society...we no longer have to worry about that 300 lb. guerilla raising kids to be just like dear old Dad....or him pounding someone else for that matter...

You did see the , right? I was just tossing out a joke. I like Heston as an actor, but I sometimes wonder why the NRA decided to toss out credibility for a brand name...and then there's that bow-hunting goof Ted Nugent, whom I've lost all respect for since he opened his mouth to speak and not sing...

But now it sounds like you're advocating that guns should only be in the hands of people affiliated with the government...a clear violation of the Constitution....how long do you think the Colonists would have lasted if that policy had been enforced by the British government back in the Day? Y'all oughta be thankful that there's an average of 1.5 shotguns per family here in TX. We'll stop any Southern invasion long before it hits the Red River and Dubya won't have to call in any Gov't forces iff'n he don't want to...but he would since his ranch is down here...

You see? We're compadres, after all! My whole point, as can be seen in this thread and a host of others in the Lounge when someone brings up gun control or the Death Penalty of which I am a supporter, has been the shooter is part of Nature...it comes from my Biology background....natural selection is an abstract process, you can't point to something and say "That's it!"...humans are part of the machinery...the mountain lion catching you anarmed on a forest path is part of the machinery...AIDS is part of the machinery...mass starvation in North Korea from American sanctions and a commie Gov't bent on building a huge military arsenal is part of the machinery......the feedback systems on this planet are huge and mind-boggling, for every way we find to increase our lives and population, natural selection will find a way to cut it back. Now, the latest is that we won't go past 12 Billion people on this planet and we won't be doubling the population as we have been since they started to keeping census statistics in the Dark Ages. Mother Nature will not be denied ashes....people shooting through windows to defend themselves against lunatics are simply part of this process and should be respected as such....

Wankelguy

"No offense intended", but I don't know what I'm talking about and must be on crack? Offense taken, roo-breath.


Monday, June 26, 2000
"Last August, the rugged Aussie survivalist whose real-life exploits inspired the "Crocodile Dundee" movies died in what then appeared to be a mysterious shootout with Australian police. A police sergeant was also killed in the incident.
It was reported that 44-year-old blond-haired Rodney William Ansell resembled uncannily Paul Hogan, the actor who played his part in the movie and the sequel. Although Ansell was no angel and had had previous run-ins with police, he had been named 1988 Australian Northern Territory Man of the Year for inspiring the movie and putting "the Australian Outback on the map."

What motivated this shooting? In 1996, Australia adopted draconian gun control laws banning certain guns (60 percent of all firearms), requiring registration of all firearms and licensing of all gun owners. "Crocodile Dundee" believed the police were coming to confiscate his unregistered firearms.

In Australia today, police can enter your house and search for guns, copy the hard drive of your computer, seize records, and do it all without a search warrant. It's the law that police can go door to door searching for weapons that have not been surrendered in their much publicized gun buy-back program. They have been using previous registration and firearm license lists to check for lapses and confiscate non-surrendered firearms.

It all began with the Port Arthur (a Tasmanian resort) tragedy on April 28, 1996, when a crazed assailant opened fire and shot 35 people. Australians were shocked, and the government reacted quickly.

Draconian gun legislation was passed in the heat of the moment because the fate of the nation was determined by a handful of statist socialists who find individual freedom abhorrent. Consider the politics: There are three major parties in Australian politics: the center right (Liberal Party), the socialist camp (Labor Party) and the ultra-left (Australian Democratic Party) – this last one easily tilted the balance of power toward stringent gun control at the expense of freedom. Moreover, to add insult to injury, Australia has had to toe the party line of the United Nations on environmental issues, land/property rights, and now, gun control as well.

As a result of stringent gun laws (really a ban on firearms) in Australia, all semiautomatic firearms (rifles and handguns) are proscribed, including .22-caliber rabbit guns and duck-hunting Remington shotguns.

Writing in The Gun Owners (Jan. 31, 2000), the newsletter for Gun Owners of America (GOA), former California State Senator H.L. Richardson notes: "They outlawed every semi-auto, even those pretty duck guns, the Browning A5 and the Remington 1100s. They even struck down pump shotguns: the Winchester model 12 and the Remington 870...Do you own a Browning BAR rifle? Banned. How about a Winchester Model 100? Out of luck, all semi-auto hunting rifles were outlawed as well. They didn't miss a one."

Twelve months after the law was implemented in 1997, there has been a 44 percent increase in armed robberies, an 8.6 percent increase in aggravated assaults, and a 3.2 percent increase in homicides. That same year in the state of Victoria, there was a 300 percent increase in homicides committed with firearms. The following year, robberies increased almost 60 percent in South Australia. By 1999, assaults had increased in New South Wales by almost 20 percent.

Two years after the ban, there have been further increases in crime: armed robberies by 73 percent; unarmed robberies by 28 percent; kidnappings by 38 percent; assaults by 17 percent; manslaughter by 29 percent, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

And consider the fact that over the previous 25-year period, Australia had shown a steady decrease both in homicide with firearms and armed robbery – until the ban.

With only 19 million people, Australia has an impressive fauna that includes plenty of varmints, marsupials, dingoes (that wreak havoc on livestock), as well as large rats and other rodents. Yet, hunting has become prohibitively difficult for all but a handful of Australians with private lands and the usual connections. Now, the ban on firearms and the disarmament of ordinary Australians has left criminals free to roam the countryside as they please.

Bandits, of course, kept their guns. Like in America, only the law-abiding, by definition, obey the law. Yet, the leftist Australian government has responded by passing more laws; in 1998 Bowie knives and other knives and items including handcuffs were banned.

Licensing is difficult. Self and family protection is not considered a valid reason to own a firearm. The right to self-defense, like in Great Britain and Canada, is not recognized in Australia, Like Americans, Australians loved and possessed firearms – that is, until the ban. Freedom has been extinguished. A way of life has ended."

-Sounds like your pump shotgun is probably illegal, how 'bout I send an e-mail notifying the Aussie authorities, wise guy? -WG

Manntis

The US Constitution was written by Colonials, not the British Crown, so there would have been no reason for the King to enforce the document.

BTW, at the risk of picking a scab, the NRA tells people everyone has a 'right to bear arms'. The constitution actually stipulated 'a right to bear arms in an organized militia will not be infringed upon'.

In other words, the rebels were granting their army the right to bear arms against the King, not for Joe Larry Lunchkit to have an assault rifle for 'home defence'.

Now, many gun owners are very responsible, law abiding folk BUT the availability of guns to feed the market makes things like gang shootouts and the Columbine massacre possible.

In Canada, shortly after Columbine, a teen in Alberta tried to emulate what had occurred in the US. Because the only weapon he could get his hands on was a bolt-action rifle, he was apprehended after firing the first shot (which tragically killed a boy sitting in the hallway, studying)

So a few hundred years ago the colonial gov't granted the right for their militia to carry weapons. A sensible thing, when forming an army to drive out an oppressive regime (side note: under modern definitions the revolution would be a 'terrorist action' and the rebels 'unlawful combatants')

Know what though? The planned British counteroffensive has been cancelled. The redcoats aint comin' back. And the only ORGANIZED militia in existance in the US today is the National Guard, who quite correctly are constitutionally entitled to carry weapons.

The reason for the perpetuation of the distortion of the constitutional right is the gun lobby, the ones that fought the Brady Bill etc. Lobbyists are powerful political tools, and have lead to things like the denial of harmful effects of tobacco for years to the new draconian rape laws in California (a woman can say 'stop' during intercourse, and if the man continues one more thrust he's guilty of rape. No provision in the law is made if the man says 'stop', thereby creating a gender-biased law)

The gun industry has a huge financial stake in the perpetuation of the market, even as legal guns stolen from houses during B&Es are then used in home invasions, prompting home owners to buy more guns to stave them off, etc.

Wankelguy

That's a misquote, Manntis.

BTW, I post quite a bit on a couple of shooting forums and some of my Canadian friends tell me that while many handguns are banned, including short-barrelled revolvers, AK-47 and SKS rifles are very popular and widely available at bargain prices. One fellow called the AK-47 the "truck rifle" of Canada.



"The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

If I posted a link to this thread on a shooting forum, those "Joe Larry Lunchkits" would rip the anti-gunners on this forum a new orifice. LOL! -WG

Manntis

The AKs and SKS available here are semi-automatic with a 5-shot cartridge only, and the weapon chews itself to **** when you fire it because the only 7.62 ammo you can get is Western manufacture, not the softer-casing Soviet ammo the weapons were designed for. And while Canadian gun enthusiasts might call them the 'truck rifle' in conversations with you, A Fire Arms Aquisition certificate is required and the weapon cannot be transported except to/from a shooting range, and then only with a transport permit issued by the local police for one-time transport (new one issued every time).

I got the correct version of the Right to Bear Arms from no less than Barbara Bush herself in a conversation I had with her in 1992. Those who misquote it in pro-gun propeganda are as guilty of revisionist history as those Californian text books that state the 2nd World War began in 1941.

In any event, this is clearly a political issue people on both sides feel strongly about and I'm unlikely to accomplish anything by discussing this in a car forum, especially the 1st gen section. Many of you who I disagree with on these issues are also people I respect and whos opinions on RX-7 related matters I cherish.

Apoligies to all for my rants. I now return you to your regularely scheduled car stuff, already in progress.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed..."

Straight off the document...the interpretation of whether that means a "militia" or individual Americans is still being fought in the US Supreme Court today. Documents and letters from the period after Independence support the individual's rights to bear arms, which is why we still do. If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns....I'm sure we've all heard that one a few times before and the agonizingly long quote from Wankelguy gives a real world example for all to see. Once you open that door (...and it's already been just barely cracked here, too, witht the ban on auto-weapons and ammo piercing ammo...), you can bet powers-behind-the-scenes will be pushing for more control or an outright ban of handguns first, then all guns, period. Man, the animal, will never be civilized in our or our childrens' lifetimes. You have to be able to defend yourself with deadly force and I'm not going to a gun battle with a knife.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

I'm amazed this thread has managed to stay in our little corner of the Forum...I think it has everything to do with Manntis' observation that it would quickly lose it's honest debate "face" and turn into a flame war if it went to the Lounge...

jalvord_2003_68_01

i carry a swith and wesson HRT boot knife in the door panel pouch thingy. It's easy to get, double edged and sharp as hell.

Wankelguy

I love you, man. You're making all my points for me, regarding the Orwellian invasiveness of Canadian gun laws. BTW, the Russian military ammo you speak of as "soft" actually uses a lacquered STEEL case, rather than the brass case used in Western manufactured ammo.
Personally, I think AK-47s and SKS are pieces of crap. I call 'em "rattle boxes". I'm not even into autoloading weapons, although I support the rights of law-abiding Americans to own them. I collect old Finland-made SAKO bolt-action rifles from the '50s and '60s, as well as older .380 Auto pocket pistols which I spruce up with my own handmade grips. Too bad they are illegal in Canada, eh? Here's a picture of a little .32 ACP Beretta made in 1958. The wood is Oregon Black Walnut.



Ha Ha, ya' got me there, everybody knows Babs is the foremost authority on the provisions of the 2nd Amendment! Peace to ya' anyway, brother. -WG

Northern 7

iTrader: (3)

I collect old Finland-made SAKO bolt-action rifles from the '50s and '60s, as well as older .380 Auto pocket pistols which I spruce up with my own handmade grips. Too bad they are illegal in Canada, eh?

I, for one, will sleep better knowing they are.... No offense intended but why would you think anyone on a car forum would feel bad about not having access to a handgun, eh?

Manntis

Understand that you rebelled against the British crown. Canadians did not, and do not regard it as neccessary to have sidearms for daily life nor 'in case our government goes too far'.

Wankelguy

So you speak for all Canadians, huh?

I don't personally feel that a sidearm is necessary for my daily life, when I do, I'll freakin' MOVE.

It is nice to know that I can have one if I so DESIRE, though.

REVHED

Are you for real? Why stoop so low as to resort to threats over an argument on a car forum... lol I can see why you need a gun to hide behind.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

You look at our new "Homeland Security" department (Why, for Pete's sake, did they pick THAT name, anyway?? It's like one step from the Fatherland....sheesh.... ) and see how they are re-interpreting who is a "real" citizen of the United States and bypassing due process when it comes to holding people for questioning and only the blind can't see where this is all going. This kind of behavior from a Federal Institution was supposed to stop after we apologized to the "Japanese"-Americans imprisoned during WWII. It's back now with a vengeance. Again, this is a door that should have stayed shut. Further curtailment of Liberties and the Pursuit of Happiness are definitely on the platter but the plans are very long range so that we, the armed citizens of America, can eat the plate in small bites and not get indigestion to the point of wanting to shoot the cook...you know what? Somebody needs to tell me to get off the damn soapbox now. I apologize for the "right wing" ranting but I do feel better and, no, I didn't vote for Dubya though I did for his Daddy and the great Ronald Reagan....Independent now...no war in Iraq...time to finish the job in North Korea...leave the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge alone, fools...OK, now I feel better...

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

So...About those Mariners?

~T.J.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

Chill guys....we don't want to fall down to the level of the 2nd and 3rdgenr folks that post in the Lounge...we've being doing pretty good so far...

mar3

iTrader: (8)

We all know how bad it gets in the Lounge occasionally, but check this thread out to see how bad it could get....we're very civilized in our little corner.....as a bonus, all the folks that would like to see me hurt will enjoy it immensely...

the vicious attack...

I maintain a presence there for my car audio work on my bro's 2002 Spyder....bunch of nitwits, though...

357

Originally Posted by Wankelguy and mar3
That's a misquote too.

I wasn't going to get into this, because I, like Manntis and quite a few other people, it seems, really dislike the idea of any random joe being able to carry a firearm. But then you had to bring Constitutional law into it.

The second amendment does not read "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

It states:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" (Ratified December 1791)

Manntis had it right, and last time I checked, individual citizens weren't "necessary to the security of a free State" or "well regulated Militias".

mar3

iTrader: (8)

It doesn't say "these people" referring to the first part of the sentence, it says "the people" and that is why we all can still purchase fire-arms here in the grand and fantastic United States of America. Y'all can go round and round on the subject, but the highest court in the Land is the only opinion that counts and they have determined that it is the individual citizen that the document refers to....read up on how Washington built his army and you'll see that a well-regulated militia virtually didn't exist and he built his guerilla force with a lot of individuals packing heat from the home as they moved from location to location...