Manntis

On CBC Newsworld they were cautioning that gas is about to spike in price due to George Dubbya's obsession with invading Iraq.

On today's markets oil already shot up in price.

Got jerrycans, people?

WackyRotary

Lounge?

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

this is the 1st gen lounge.

mwpayne

Yeah, yeah, that's what many bed-wetters said about desert storm...didn't happen.

Manntis

Desert storm was a coalition action sanctioned by the UN to repel one country that had invaded another, and oil prices hardly bumped.

This is a superpower invading an Arab nation to "impose democracy" with the UN against such action, and oil prices are already reacting.

Scenario one:

I buy some extra gas, the price doesn't move appreciably, and I use it up over the next few months after taking the **** for being 'alarmist'

Scenario two:

I buy some extra gas, the price jumps, and I save a few bucks off my cost of fuel for the next few months.

It's not like I'm in the streets yelling "Viva la Revoluçion!" or something, jeez!

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Okmy question is, I heard someone say that we dont pump near as much gas from wells here in the states as we used to, cause its easier to get it from them... I say we just nuke the bastards, our nukes are clean in like 8-10 years anyways, turn it into a las vegas in the middle east. Them ******* been causing trouble since the beginning of time.

WackyRotary

Yeah, I'm sorry for sounding mean.

I guess you could use my alternative... Convert to run E-85(ethanal 85% 15%gas) which is sold here in MN for FFV's(flex fuel vehicles)-optional for no extra charge for most car makers for select models.

For me and da weber, all it consists of is larger accerator nozzles, much larger main fuel jets and ready to go. And beyond that, this stuff is sold at gas stations through out the state of MN. The nearest one is ~12miles from my house. I just drove by it too today. Regular unleaded: $1.37/gal Premium: $1.49/gal E-85: $1.24/gal

Forgot to mention I've done this before, it DOES make more power ofcourse(extra O2 in ethanol ofcourse), less carbon build up, but also reduce MPG.

The main problem is Cost of BTU ethanol to BTU gasoline. The critical mark is that e-85 needs to cost about 65% that of gasoline to get the same cost per mile. Which it did a couple times in the last summer when gas hit $2.00 and bounced around there for a while.

By the way, imposing democracy is WAY harsh phrasing considering. By the way, democracy and dictatarship like Iraq clash badly since they keep evil people in power sometimes, this is why voting people in and out is a good thing we all should be thankful for.

Changing a regeme on the rim of being a terrorist regeme considering its use of chemical and biological weapons on its own citisens and its neighbor(Iran) is not a bad thing to be rid of, do you think that was made up or something.

Again, I guess this is a lunge subject.

mwpayne

Without sounding nasty, most of those opposed to our impending clock-cleaning of saddam never had 3,000 plus people killed in their country by terrorists. These are the same well-meaning folks that, if we had proof that Osama was planning to take our airplanes and crash them into buildings, would be in a panic mode to stop us from a preimptive strike to squash the attack. They would be yelling "where's the proof" like so many left-wing whiners in our very own congress.
Yep, a definite lounge thread, but I had to jump in.

Manntis

Without getting too deep into this, and with the utmost respect for the people of the US, Iraq wasn't in on the events of last year. Should the US invade? Not my intent for this thread.

My point is the news is going on about how oil already went up in price and that it's likely gas will be going up very, very soon (as gas stations usually look for reasons to raise the price, @ least in Canada)

I didn't post this in the lounge because, well, then there'd be a ton of flames and it'd go off into a debate about how pickles are better than cucumbers or something.

1st7heaven

Manntis, you are right about what would happen if you posted in the lounge!!!

Our fuel down here in Texas seems to be stable at this point.....1.31 "87", 1.41"89", 1.51"93". I even saw 93 at a 7-eleven today for 1.34!!!!

I have to say though, my buisness is somewhat tied to the oil industry and we have tons of wells not pumping her in Texas and up in Oklahoma. Seems that the wells shut down when the oil gets down in the $22-25 dollars per barrel range. Once it goes up they start pumping.

Not trying to argue anything.......just letting you know whats happening down here

Sammymatik

We are going to war to lower the prices of oil man, not raise it.

ioTus

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, and Georgie Porgie sure knows how to manage oil companies, as we've seen before.

How many companies was it that he bankrupted? Good thing he's got daddie's and his college brotherhood's funds to fall back on.... :rollseyes:

rx7passion

i would be pissed if just as i get my car tuned and ready to burn up alot of gas it goes up to 2.30$ a gallon for 92 octaine.
my belief is little G.B. is trying so hard to be like his dad and have to world like him he wants to take on iraq again and hopes it will be over in 72 hours like in previous engagment. it is pointless what has saddam really done to the outside world in the last 10 years other than talk ****???

if we do go over there and try and kick his *** we dont have any of the local bases for like what 3000+ miles from what we had in 91. plus i would think saddamn and his military would learn a little something from the *** whooping he got back in 91. it would just turn into a drawn out war that would do nothing for american but help out the "war on terrorism" its a crock of shiat and is just going to **** over the average tax payer like myself.
i myself would like to see something done for the actual tax payer not for the government.. its already to big and is already a target for terrorists... concitrate on something more important like schools and lowerin tuition and cost of living that way we can develop better rotarys and cheaper gas so i cna romp on it 24/7

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Perfect reason to just nuke the *******

Sterling

...Oh-oh, But he did give something back to the taxpayer, RXpassion...Don't you remember that wonderful 3-400 dollar refund we all got? Kinda like a payoff to keep us from "Hurrumphing" too loud about brother Jeb ******* with his state polls.
(Yet another lounge topic.)

Remember back in the heat of angery passion when Dubbya offered warm, harsh, yet consoling words of vengience by wageing war on terrorism? "Hoo-Ya", we all seem to say...Every medial-fed fat couch-potatoe with average IQ and lower seemed to turn into a friggin Navy SEAL in the heat of angery passion. We were all dumfounded by the terrorist acts committed in one day, but were quickly relieved when it was brought to our attention that the previously viewed as "dopey", Georgey-Spoiled Brat-Dubbya did indeed appear to have a backbone.
Now we are all starting to wonder if in fact he's a ******* android, and the kids at MIT forgot to install a ******* kill-switch!
Government does indeed learn from past mistakes. But it simply wieghs them against the repercussions, and decides to deal with them later if the end result will ultimately be desireable.
In the eyes of the UN, our destruction of Afgahnistan would'nt be so hidiously viewed if we dropped a few granola bars down to all the lil' boys and girls. So that's what we did. Made it look like a "Humanitarian Effort". Kripes!
The US government knew from playing the game with Saddam, the only way that these bad guys can ever play chess with us is if they use their own civilians as pawns by surrounding targets with them.
Our Christian priorities seem to dictate what's fair in war. But their Islamic-break-off beliefs and priorities lets them play a whole different game.
(Sorry folks, but let's face it...If you're the big cheese (Saddam), and you believe that people get reicarnated or go to a much better place, and your backyard sucks to live in, well then logically, it's justifiable to kill your own people. Hell, he probably feels like he's doing them a favor!
Too harsh?)

The US has bullied it's way through the middle east for a long time. Our government acts like a the self proclaimed cop of the UN, when in fact the whole world is really pissed off at us!

Wave that ******* flag, folks! Yeah, let's go to Iraq and kick ***. Part of the democracy that we all stand up and verbally fight for, and are "oh-so-proud of" is the idea of due process. Things need to be proven in a higher court for someone to recieve punishment in a democracy. So we're all yip-yappin about the fight for democracy, yet the US thumbs it's nose at the UN! Only a few days ago, after he already told the world of his secret plans to invade Iraq (WTF?!) did Georege finally address the UN council.
And then he plays the corporate politics by saying, "If you let us go kick ***, we'll donate money to ya!".
Holy ****, what a ******* he's got!
And our government does'nt just want things checked out over there, but they want to be the ones to do the inspections, as well! WTF!? Is that to ensure that things do NOT go smoothly?

I'm sorry, but our own government is too divided as it is, let alone the fact that the rest of the world is getting more and more pissed at us! We bomb Iraq, and the only people that will suffer are the innocent civilians that Saddam lines his palaces with!

We as citizens need to climb outside the corporate-owned medial spoon feeding that surrounds our box, and find out how the rest of the world feels about the **** we've done. In fact, just try to find out some of the **** we have done.
Imagine finding out that there are things that we've done to those people over there that make their anger actually justifiable! Nobody wants to hear that, though. Hell, hardly any average American could point out Afgahnistan on a map. But not to worry- The Government will take care of things...

We've got enough problems at home, folks...Like corporations owning ALL of our media; The fact that in this day and age of techno-ingenuity, in a country who's claim to historical fame is the democracy that we've fought so valiently for, we can't seem to have a clean election (And even though the BBC has been accused of being tainted a bit, at least they still managed to demonstrate the fact that the Florida election SCANDAL [ not "debockle", folks] was really big news -Long after it faded away here in the states!!!); The fact that most of the airport security workers' last jobs were the ones they got fired from at MacDonalds or Burger King ...
Ya know; little **** like that.

I'm a patriotic US citizen, and I say the US is wrong. We're the fatest, piggiest country in the WHOLE WORLD! And we're all gonna cry about an increase in pump prices when Europeans have been paying in excess of $4 or 5 a gallon for years? I think the price will go up no matter what we do!

Wadja think that tax bonus was for?

I'm glad we took swift action against Bin Laudin. And I wonder what Gore would've done. George is a bully. His Dad is a bully. (His brother was'nt born with "bully-*****'.) But I'm very glad to have had Georgey in office. He rose well to the occassion.
However, it's time for him to demonstrate what else he can do for us. It's time for him to do his friggin job.

I had a friend who went to Desert Storm.
He did not come back the same person.
War is not to be taken so damn lightly. Certainly worth a few pennys at the pump if that's what it costs to avoid it.
The alternative is having to feed the giant money-eating defence machine for another decade after the proposed squirmish.

851stgen12a

Very Beautifully said. A few points I doint completly agree with but hey, im not gonna bitch.
I personally completly support an action against Iraq. In 91 after deesert storm there were sanctions put against Iraq(by the UN) that demand that Sadam allow UN weapons inspectors into his areas to look for big nasty stuff. (long range missels, biological weapons, nukes, ect.) And for the past 10 years Sadam has given the UN the bird, and all The UN has done was slap his wrist and say bad boy, while he stock piles some weapons that I dont even want to know. So its about damn time that someone does more that just slap Sadams wrist. These sanctions should have been taken care of 10 years ago the first time he refused to let inspectors in.
I really think this does goes beyond Bush trying to make daddy happy. I think what Bush said yesterday about the UN need to get a back bone and deal with this problem, is dead on!!

Sterling

No way! I want hard proof about these "stock piles", along with an explaination of why the United States waited for ten years to push so hard.
The fact of the matter is, Saddam has failed to be 'taken out'. So long as there are UN inspectors in Iraq, no one can snipe his ***. It would be, well...illeagle!

I don't think Iraq poses near the threat to the US as "cells", "sects", ect, that are already here!
If the US spent the money it would take to invade Iraq on simple national security, we would fuel the "Global terrorist-cleansing" process. That's almost a big machine now. Arrests are constantly being made...all in countries other than the offending ones.
Invading Iraq is just opening a can of worms. And I bank my money on the idea that it's all with the 2004 presidential election well in mind!

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Nuke'em Nuke'em Nuke the ******* Sorry just had to say it.

Manntis

"Isreal has weapons of mass destriction. Nobody mentions that."

~Nelson Mandela, during a speech in which he also pointed out that Dick Cheny had opposed Mr. Mandela's release from South African prison.

Some interesting reading: http://www.msnbc.com/news/807688.asp?0cl=c1

"Bush went beyond calling for disarmament and inspection to invoke democracy and human values as future goals for Iraq. Since so few places in the Middle East subscribe to democratic values, a congressional aide thought the networks should pan to the Saudi delegation to see if they’re snickering"

~Elanor Clift, former US Diplomat

buffalo

Don't need a war to pay $2.30 premium a gallon, just move to Hawaii-

851stgen12a

"Isreal has weapons of mass destriction. Nobody mentions that.....



Isreal isnt running around screaming Kill the Evil Americans... bottom line Saddam Is an absolutly evil man and need to be over thrown. period. I feel if we dont do it know either us the Americans or someone else in our small globe is gonna pay for it.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

Here's the funny part. Iraqi oil is now a drop in the bucket and does not contribute significantly to the M/E output. So why is the gas going up? Because freakin' Mobile/Exxon sees an opportunity to raise it with the American Public buying the stupid argument that events in the M/E justify it. We are so gullible as the masses. I also believe we do not need to mount an invasion of a country 3000+ miles from us alone. That is plain stupid. They're not on foreign soil this time, fellahs, like they were in Kuwait. They aren't going to go running in retreat when it's their homeland that is being invaded by the "infidels." We are going to lose a lot of good Americans because the option of bombing until the desert is glass is not an option this time if we invade. The civilian casualties would be catastrophic and we would certainly polarize all the elements of the M/E against us for sure at that point. Until he gets long range ICBMs capable of reaching targets here in the USA, Saddam poses no threat to us. He even kicked out the terrorist training camps before 9/11 and before the Kuwaiti invasion because he saw them as a threat to his own dictatorship. Saddam is a threat to his neighbors and Israel, not us. If he invades Israel or strikes it with a nuke, then we act, and then only after getting the invitation from Israel, and we clean up. We've had no problem nuking civilian populations before in a time of war and a strike against Israel of that nature would certainly mean real war, not police action. Until then, this all saber-rattling of the worse kind by Dubya and, as Karl Rove has already spilled, it's actually part of a Republican marketing strategy for the November election cycle.

ps. And we need to stop all thoughts and future legislation from even thinking about drilling for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Also, always spell it completely out, even if it's a mouthful and your fingers are cramped afterwards. That acronym crap "ANWR" is meant to strip the Refuge of identity by taking out identifier words like "wildlife" and "refuge." Sounds a lot easier to drill into ANWR, than if you knew it was a refuge on a coastland compromising only 5% of Alaska. Leave that f#*king 5% alone already...remember the Exxon Valdez tragedy!

inittab

And it's a damn good thing they don't strap these devices onto their citizens and walk them into crowds.

AFAIK, Israel does not have *banned* weapons, nor have they done anything that would prompt the UN to pass a resolution to prevent them from having nukes.

Nobody mentions it, because it's not an issue!

Manntis

Notice I was quoting someone.

It's an issue as far as Nelson Mandela is concerned, because he was pointing out that Israel has used force on people within it's borders (Palistinians) just as Iraq has; and has the potential to use WOMD on its neighbors.

Iraq is accused of developing WOMD and used force on people within it's borders (although the weapons inspectors who were there say no such development is actually taking place). As to lashing out to countries beyond it's borders right now Iraq is a relatively neutered country incapable of such aggression. It's army was decimated ten years ago, it's scuds destroyed. Even if it succeeded in creating the biological and chemical WOMD that George Dubyah accuses him of, Saddam has no delivery system to use them on other nations.

What other world leaders are pointing out is that Iraq is being singled out for (a) being nasty to it's own citizens (although hundreds of countries are guilty of the same, yet not included in GWB's 'axis of evil') and (b) allegedly and without proof trying to develop something that other countries already possess.

India and Pakistan both have nukes, they don't exactly play nice with each other, but nobody says boo about it.

What's important to remember is when countries such as Iraq, Burma, China, Bosnia, etc. do crummy things within their borders there's a process to go through; step one is sanctions, step two is to send in UN peacekeepers to "enforce diplomacy by other means".

But I digress. The point of my thread, as I mentioned before, is there's a good chance fuel prices will go up.

Oil as a commodity is market driven; it's not neccessarily some global company's machinations, but commodity spectators buying on the open market that drives up the price.

inittab

Okay back onto gas....... I have my own theory on that......

I say everyone and I mean everyone should drive the biggest gas guzzl'n SUV's and RX-7's money can buy. Let's use up ALL the oil in the world (yeah right!) ASAP so we can actually start using cleaner alternative fuel sources. Gas is cheap reeeal cheap and the only way were gonna rid ourselves of it is by 1) using it all up or 2) making sure it's more expensive than the alternatives. Maybe this Iraq thing will, finally help the world turn a corner on this whole gas issue. I can't wait......