mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Mariah WB is in the mail, now the question is wheels... I can run 8.5" in the front and 9.5" in the rear.

I have been debating for a while if I should stay 4 lug or go 5 lug.

With the 4 lug option: I have two sets of racing wheels: Kossi K1 7" wide with a brand new set of racing tires and DR 8" wide with old Hoosers. I have also just purchased a set of staggered 17's 7" and 9" respectively with new tires and have only put about 300 miles on this setup. I hate to throw this money away and if I stayed 4 lug, I could move the rears to the front and buy some 9" for the rear. I will have to buy new racing wheels and tires and two rear wheels and tires.

With the 5 lug option: $1,000 on the conversion with Re-Speed products (including the advantage of TII brakes), new street wheels and tires at about $1,000 used in the FS section on on ebay, track wheels and tires another $1,000. I can put off buying the track wheels and tires and I can offset some of the cost by selling my current wheels, but there is still significant cost involved but you open up an entire world of aftermarket brakes and wheels which are often available used for decent prices.

Also, there are 4 to 5 lug conversion kits on ebay that sell for a couple hundred. These screw into the 4 stud holes with supplied bolts and have 5 studs for mounting wheels. These are made for old Mustangs, but have the same bolt pattern and would enable me to pick up some used wheels that will fit my new fenders (maybe as a temp solution as I save up money for the Re-Speed kit and axles). I do not know if anyone has any experience with these. One advantage/disadvantge is that they add -15 mm of offset, which is fine if I buy wheels that would need spacers anyway as most do.

Opinions, comments, and personal experience are welcome!

food7373

iTrader: (2)

I'm in the same boat as you are. I was looking at some Diamond Racing Wheels, but they don't make 1/2 sizes. My idea is that maybe I will just go 10" in the back and 9" in the front. I'm not sure how it will turn out, but the quote I got for the wheels are around 110-120 a wheel, so not a bad deal at all. I also have a 4x110 bolt pattern which limits me a lot because not too many companies make 4x110 bolt patterns.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Here are those adapters I wastalking about. I was wrong, they add 50mm of thickness not 15

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

food7373

iTrader: (2)

Dang, that's a pretty good amount.

thunkrd

iTrader: (1)

2 inches... ><

yes, going 5 lug is expensive, i'd say its worth it for widebody tho

mustanghammer

iTrader: (3)

I voted 4 lug!

It depends on what you are doing, what size wheels you are going to run and what your body work options are.

From my research the best 15" sizes for stock body work are in 4 lug. For my project I need a tire that is 23" in diameter and there are more racing tires in 15" sizes that get that done - 205/50 and or 225/45. As far as wheels I am looking at XXR 501 in 15x8. They are cheaper and lighter than Diamond wheels.

If I was able to do a wide body kit (not allowed in Super Touring) I would look at 17's and do 5 lugs.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Im not sure if you fully read the original post. Mariah Mode 1 wide body is what I am going with. 15" are NOT an option. Why? Because no one makes a 265 15" tire. 16" and 17" are the only way to go.
I do not put XXR or any other such junk on my car. I hate bad quality wheels. Right now I have 5Zigens on which are cheap but decent quality. They also have a racing history and are currently the Spec Miata wheel.

mustanghammer

iTrader: (3)

Nope....didn't read ALL of your post. My bad.

Seems like an easy choice to me if you want to run wheels that big, you need 5 lugs.

I was comparing XXR's to Diamond steel wheels...nothing more. I have used Diamond wheels and own a set for rains and they are heavy and not hub centric. Given a choice I wouldn't have an issue with XXR's, Drags, Konig;s etc. Not saying you need to ...so chill

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Got ya and I appreciate the input. I am chill. Non-spoken work can sometimes come across more harsh than intended. I just have a bad opinion of XXR's as there is a Civic owner on my street that has them and they somehow rusted and look like crap. I do not understand how an aluminum wheel rusts but anyway...

I can get wheels that big on the four lugs, but they are far less common. As I mentioned, the 5Zigens I have are available in 17x9 in my bolt pattern. So, I could just move my current 17x8 rear wheels to the front and buy two 17x9 for the rear and call it a day. In addtion, my DR wheels that I have are 13x8 which with a fat set of hoosers should be able to fill the wheel wells quite nicely.

So far the vote is split. I'm starting to regret the hoverboard option...

Kentetsu

Go with the five lug setup, but have Billy drill them for 4x110 as well. That way, you could run either setup on the same hub.




.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Best idea I have heard all day!

Keith13b

iTrader: (6)

Better yet : go 5-lug and send me your 4-lugs! I'm planning to put the TII brakes on my FB and need the 4x4.5 pattern hubs!

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Billy said that I needed the FC 4 bolt pattern for the BBK conversion. How are you going to mount the calipers on the GSL-SE hubs? Is there another kit or will the Re-Speed one work?

Keith13b

iTrader: (6)

ReSpeed kit + 4-lug FC hubs (hence my last post) + TII calipers and rotors are all that are needed!

That is if you want to keep your 4-lug SE wheels. If not, go with the 5-lug hubs. Many more wheel options in that pattern.

EDIT: Oops - sorry - I thought you had the FC and wanted to upgrade to the 5-lug. My bad!

mustanghammer

iTrader: (3)

No problem....I should have taken the time to read your post. Absolutely no offense taken and I am sorry I got chippy with you.

My personal preference would be to run the FC Turbo brakes, at least on the front, no matter what you are doing. The GSL/SE front rotors are known to fail in track use - more on that later - and they are small brakes.

There are several things that happen when you increase the tire/wheel diameter on a car. First, the wheel/tire package gets heavier so it puts more of a strain on the wheel bearings and spindle. FB's have tiny spindles with smallish wheel bearings. Second, a bigger diameter tire/wheel package is harder to stop so this makes the brakes work harder. Think of the wheels/tires as being flywheels. When you increase the diameter and weight of a flywheel it gets harder to slow down.

The beauty of the Re-Speed kit is that you can start with 4 lugs and then later switch to 5 lugs. Plus you end up with a larger inner wheel bearing with the FC hub (4 or 5 lug). As far as axles are concerned, I belive it would be possible to dual drill the 4 and 5 lug patterns in the flanges if you get Moser axles. The 4 lug and 5 patterns share the same circle and the Moser flange is the same thickness all the way around.

As far as the Ebay adapters....I would really be afraid of these in combination with the GSL/SE rotors. These rotors will fail around the lug holes and the bearing hub with no spacers installed at all. Spacers would only make this more likely. The issue is that the cast iron around the lug nuts and the hub is too thin and not properly reinforced. The result of a failure is really bad - I've seen the results in person. The GSL/SE brakes are more than okay for the street and autocrossing, they are too weak for track use with big sticky tires.

When you work out the hover boards I will be happy to try out the first proto-type!

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Unfortunately, it is not that simple (read impossible) to do a four and 5 lug pattern. I'm slightly lost, but here is the reply from Billy when requesting such a task. If anyone can decipher this better than I can, please brake it down for me (yes, the misspelled pun was intended).


"We can do the axles with a dual pattern if they are both 4 lug. The problem will come in with the FC front hubs. There is extensive welding and re-drilling to get these dual pattern. Then the rotors will be an issue. See the drilling of the 5 lug rotors to 4 lug only works because the diameter of the pattern is the same, 4.5" (114.3mm). When trying to fit a 110mm pattern in with the current 5 lug pattern you run into issues.


We do have a MarkII front big brake kit that retains the 110MM pattern. This kit is made to order and runs around $500. It includes everything but the TurboII calipers. We do not offer a 110MM rear big brake kit.


-billy"

Kentetsu

One other reason that larger wheels are harder on the brakes, and I would think that this is the primary reason, is that larger wheels result in a longer lever. Know what I mean?

bwaits

iTrader: (12)

"We can do the axles with a dual pattern if they are both 4 lug."

That did not come out like I wanted. You can have a dual pattern 5 lug and 4 lug axle if the bolt circle is the same. You can not have a 5 lug 4.5" and a 4 lug 110MM. The patterns simply will not fit correctly.

-billy

mustanghammer

iTrader: (3)

If you do the Re-Speed big brake kit you can swap hubs to go from 4 to 5 lug. No redrilling, welding, etc required on the Hub.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Got ya. However, if every time I change out my wheels, I need to change my hub, that is going to be a major PITA.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

Going with the 5 lug. Thanks for the input guys! I'm currently trying to decide on wheels. So far the BBS RS are in the lead. Help me out with your vote:

https://www.rx7club.com/1st-gen-general-discussion-207/what-wheels-go-widebody-894551/

Whizbang

or....use an FC subframe (front two bolts line up anyway) and get rack and pinion steering and the FC suspension design for as cheap as you can get the subframe for.

mikeric

iTrader: (20)

I already have the Re-Speed Rack and pinion kit. Not sure why i would want to go to the FC subframe?

Now, someone but all my 4x114.3 wheels!