RxTodd

The intake was off and I did not cover the holes. I considered something may have fallen in there. I know for a fact the shavings from me scraping off the old gasket probably fell in. Are there any ways of looking to see or cleaning out the chambers without taking the engine apart? Also, when the bolt loosened, again, I didn't notice any changes or looseness to other components but I wasn't really looking for that, this being my 1st rodeo and all.

I greatly appreciate all the input from the club. I aspire to get to where I can assist others too.

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

Take off the exhaust manifold.

RxTodd

Ok, can I also remove the lower portion of the intake? I don't know the name of it. The smog pump feeds it.

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

You can if you want but I don't think it will allow enough access to the rotor housing. By removing the exhaust manifold, you can inspect the apex seals (most of it anyway)..

mazdaverx713b

iTrader: (91)

Removing the exhaust manifold is the easiest way to see if something foreign is in the engine. Can be difficult to see with the engine in the car however. A telescoping mirror and a quality flashlight will be useful if you take this route. Otherwise, remove the engine and then the exhaust manifold and look directly into the engine via the exhaust ports as you rotate the engine over. You can somwhat see into the lower portion of the housing and can assess if there's damage. This can also be done with the engine in the car by using the mirror and flashlight method but it is more difficult to see.

RxTodd

I'll give that a try. I've accepted that the worse case scenario is me taking the engine out again and having it rebuilt. Thanks for the help!

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

here are my thoughts on your predicament. the engine will need to come out. you said you've already accepted that, and that's good.

the reason is has to come out is because somehow the front bolt came loose and (presumably) there was no pressure being applied to the clutch when it happened. i wouldn't trust the bearing to remain in place, so you will need to pull the front cover and given your experience, i think it's best to do so with the engine facing up.

while it's out, you can try to fish around the intake ports with a magnet to see if you get whatever may have dropped in there out of it. my guess (and that's all it is) is you'll probably be able to fish it out from the intake because the resistance you feel is it getting wedged in the compression/ignition area. it doesn't sound like you forced it all the way through, so when you spun the engine backwards, it should go back into the intake area. that said, you'll have the engine out, so go ahead and check the exhaust area too. it's the easiest part to see without a special tool (mirror, camera, etc.). hopefully it's just some carbon flake or something and you didn't really drop something in there, but as long as you didn't force it to turn, you shouldn't have damaged anything.

i dropped a carburetor nut down an intake once, but i actually saw it fall in, so i had the presence of mind not to move the engine, plus i knew which chamber it went in. your situation, not knowing if it happened at all, or if it did happen, then where, is a bit more complicated, but i'm not yet convinced the engine has to come apart.

RxTodd

Hey gang, just wanted to update you as to my progress... Not much, I was told to continue to lubicate lightly and move, or turn, the engine back and forth to possibly work past the stoppage that I'm encountering. Clockwise, I still hit a point but it feels like I'm wedging to a stop rather than hitting something. Counter clockwise, it seems to want to do a full rotation. I'm tempted to take it all the way around but wanted to check with the group to see if I'll run the risk of engine damage by doing that. I'm getting frustrated because I expected to be cruising around the subdivision by now.

Thanks in advance for lending me your time.

Toruki

I dunno. It was turning easily by hand. Now it suddenly is not turning. That sounds like an important thing is out of place. The notion that it will just resolve itself with lubrication sounds aspirational rather than based in reasonable expectation. The accidental loosening of the front eshaft nut and the possible movement of the thrust bearing adds more concern.

Not trying to be doom and gloom, and I know how tempting it is to get it on the road, but if it were me, I'd stop, take a few breaths, pull it out and inspect everything as folks in this thread (with practical knowledge!) have suggested. If you don't do that, you'll always wonder if you should have.

RxTodd

Thanks and agreed that I should not rush it.

RxTodd

Just to expound on my reply, yes the sensible thing to do is pull it back out, dismantle and rebuild but I really don't feel like I can pull that off successfully. Then, the cheapest rebuild kit I've seen is just shy of $1000. I'm in central North Carolina so there are no shops devoted to rotary engines in this area. Ok let's say I had access to a rotary shop, I can't imagine what it would cost to have someone else rebuild it plus I would want to be there to watch and learn during the entire rebuild process. This is saddening me more and more as I go along.

7aull

iTrader: (2)

Hey Todd-
you.can.do.this!
I was forced with either rebuilding the 12A on one of my first 80SAs or just roll the whole thing (figuratively) into the river. My entire mechanical experience was oil-changes and parts swapping. I figured: nothing here to lose! There are excellent How-2 videos out there (Atkins; better: Mazdatrix) that walk you thru what 'secrets' there are (don't rely on FSM - too vague, tho good for specs). You need a few special tools, but avai and cheep: rotary adapter for engine stand: $70 (sell if off after), pressure-tester to confirm block is correctly sealed once buttoned together on Stand (Pineappleracing.com sells these for about $70 also, IIRC). Plus the rebuild kit. If your seals are in spec, the gasket kit is about $125. If you decide (I did) to replace oil seal rings and apex, then, yeah, another $500. This all presumes the rotor housings are fine - some wear and even a bit if 'chipping' of surfaces internally is allowable.
Recommend you start with dropping the $30 for the Mazdatrix rebuild DVD and just watch it to see what they do. Easy way to judge if you are up for the task. Best $30 you will spend, regardless of what you do!

'luck on the Build!

Stu A
80GS
AZ

Toruki

I agree with Stu, you totally can do this.

RxTodd

Thank you Stu for the encouragement! This might be a silly question but at what point do I need to commit to a rebuild? The engine only has 77k original miles. The guy I bought it from took the engine out of a wrecked '84. When I picked it up, it was in a shed but I'm sure over be years, it's been rained on because there is some light rust about the non aluminum components. Also, I saw on YouTube where a guy loosened the center bolt and it jumped in his hands almost. Mine did not do that.

Either way, I'm going to buy the DVD you suggested and study it well.

RxTodd

Thanks Tourki, you guys are really helping me to look at my situation in a more positive light. I feel like I got a potentially great runner in this SE and I don't want to screw it up.

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

You may not need a rebuild. Do as @diabolical1 suggested. remove the engine, point the front cover in the air, and remove the front cover stack and inspect. Good time to reseal the oil pan if it is leaking.

RxTodd

Ok, I'll give that a shot. Thanks for the suggestions. Also, just wanted to apologize to Toruki for my spell check misspelling their name. My bad on that.

Toruki

lol, I didn't even notice the misspelling . I've learned learned tons from this excellent group...there's so much experience here and it seems like there's always someone who's an expert on the very thing you need.

mazdaverx713b

iTrader: (91)

Before you tear it down, check to make sure there is nothing in the engine wedging a rotor. A bolt or nut perhaps. You should be able to have the engine out in a couple of hours and then remove the exhaust manifold and peer in with a light. From there you can rotate the engine and check for anything foreign inside of the engine. Personally I would do this before tearing the engine down. You might be able to save a lot of time and money. If you don't find anything and want to proceed with engine teardown then we are here to help with that as well.

RxTodd

Thank you all for the support. I plan on tackling the engine Tues and will keep you posted on what I find. This is a kind and generous community of rotary owners and I'm glad to be a part of it.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

if you don't have one already, get this: (or something similar)

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

If you don't find anything from inspecting the exhaust openings, you can remove the front cover without getting into the rotors. If the torrington bearing is the issue, all that is needed at this point to a new one and a front cover gasket and resetting endplay.

Another tip. If it comes to removing the front cover, find the timing marks before tearing anything apart and mark the pulley and the hub for reference.