Alright I have pritty much decided to get Bilsteins for my rally project. I am not sure whare to get them though, and which ones I need. Now I got some part numbers for the fron't, however the part number for the rear shocks seems to be wrong or something because I cannot find anything on them, or the bushings I need.

I am also wondering about the Bilstiens off of ITS racing? Are they good, I might just go with there rears, and other bilstien fronts? I would also like the Part numbers for the rear Bilstiens, I understand they come from a BMW?? (my car is a 1985 GSL)

Thanks Ted

 

All Bilstein shock are better than alright, contact www.iscracing.net for these parts

 

That is what I ment ISC not ITS. Those shocks are nice, But will they have a lowering effect on teh car... And I am worried about shiping. I live in south western Ontario, and they are located in Florida I belive. That is going to be a pritty big coin for shipping no? And then border taxes, ect. I was thinking about buying from the factory, and picking them up at my local parts distributer. That is why I am would like to no the rear shocks part numbers and bushings.

Thanks Ted

 

lowing would be the effect of the springs not shocks/struts.....

 

Also, for a rally car, are the fronts going to be stong enough? Will the shock shaft take the lateral load that rally places on a shock not seen on a road race car? I may be speaking above my intelligence on this matter, but the lateral load at the top of the shock may neccessitate either an inverted strut or a larger diameter shock shaft such as those from Drummond Motor Sports, or some other supplier. Also, I would think that the valving that ISC provides for their shocks is more toward road racing than rally. I would think that you would want a little MORE travel than stock and probably softer compression as the rally roads I have seen are usually a little rougher than asphalt. lol Just another .02 for you.

Cheers,
Travis

 

Tokicos are good. HP in my wide body RB 7 & am happy. Use the Illumina in my Z. Dial stiff for my V8 so I can see the road when I punch it.

 

are HP tough enough for rally racing. I will probly use the stock springs, and More shocks travel is good. The bilstiens I was looking at have larger diamter shocks as T racer said I would need. I would say much stiffer shocks would be needed, because the car will be airborn... I need something tough enough to take the beating of the landing. I say tough stiff Bilstiens with low rate springs or preferably, variable rate spring would be best. But I still need part numbers lol.

On a side note I have conciderd geting the Eibach springs, and Tkoico HP's, But I don't think it would be a tough enough set up.

Thanks Ted.

 

Damn from Bilsteins to Tokico HPs that a big difference and not for the better. Belsteins are world class great rebuildable dampers, Tokico HPs are marginally better than stock. Stock springs will not give you anywhere near enough spring travel, you'll need a minumum of 2" more height.

I dont think you understand the purpose of the springs versus dampers.

Springs hold the car up, soften the action of the wheel striking a rut or bump and determine the amount of suspension travel the car ultimately has, the damper(shock) actually damps the motion of the spring stopping the car from continually bouncing up and down.

 

As I was thinking aussiemg, No_Name if you are concerned about the car getting airborne, then stiffer shocks will not help you there. You need more travel in the whole suspension and a little more spring. I may be way off in my thinking here, but wouldn't you want more travel and spring force, possibly a rising rate spring, to help the car slow down coming down, with the shock there to keep the car from bouncing of the ground again once it hits and rebounds. An overly stiff shock will not let the spring work, causing bad landings, and probably a strut or two through the hood. Would definitely reinforce the strut mount, possibly box it in. Remember, these cars already have 20+ years of use/abuse stressing the body. Rallying will kill a new car, let alone one with age on its side. Good luck, and keep us posted!!

Cheers,
Travis

 

Good point. SO Basicly its been determined to use Bilsteins. That I am cool with, But what springs should I use... And part numbers are good, I can't stress teh part numbers enough lol.

Thanks Ted.

 

Bumpeedi bumb bump

 

you will be happy with bilstiens...i ran them on my ford ranger and they were great. Go with what fits. dont worry too much about damping and all that, yet. IF you're SERIOUS about your suspension, find an adjustable rate coilover that utilizes a bilstien shock. You want compression on your down struck (after a hard landing possibly) but you don't want it to be too heavily rebounded or else you will just bounce right back up and get a bad case of the hippity hops. (dont believe me, watch a video of a stock truck going through whoops at about 5-10 mph, it just bounces up and down as the suspension cycles itself under the weight of the truck.) GOOD LUCK! rally is great, and if i could afford to do it properly i would in a heartbeat.

 

I see, so should I stick with stock springs or upgrade to someting better???

 

What springs would you guys recomend?

 

I love my RB springs.

 

What is the length and spring rate on those? I was thinking of using rear springs off a B2000 or 3000 pickup, they are tough, longer and much cheaper then rally springs. But I am wondering what is the daimeter of the mount for the springs ( what diameter spring do I need?).

Thanks Ted.

 

Bump.

 

Do you wish to go with coilovers or stock spring mounts?

Either way arguably the best affordable springs are Eibach, which combined with Bilstein shocks you will have a premium set up.

Remember coilovers are better, cost more, allow corner weighting, but are probably overkill for a starter car.

I dont see the sense in putting in quality Bilsteins and then using old truck springs with dubious rates.

 

I would like to use stock spring mounts, but I am worried if Eibach's will have a high enough spring rates... Do you have part numbers? or a link?

Thanks Ted.

 

You need to contact a supplier such as Shox.com and ask for a set for rally use, the usual ones found in here/eBay are lowered and you do NOT want to lower the car. They will be able to advise you on spring rates.

 

Agreed. When you say you want to use them for rally, I assume you mean off-road WRC type rally's.

While you may have already done your homework, the discussion here sounds more like "what parts should I bolt on to make my car a rally car?". It is not that simple. Most all the parts mentioned are good - for the right application.

I would recommend researching the requirements of suspension for a rally car before selecting shocks or springs. As mentioned elsewhere, generally you are going to want a setup that allows more travel vs. the typical road race / autocross setup that lowers the car and (generally) reduces suspension travel.

I spent a little time in rallying, and it is unique unto itself, and at least in North America, is not too much more than a "cult" type of motorsport. Even autocrossing is way more well known. I would be surprised if anyone that frequents this board is really expert at it.

Classic Motorbooks and Amazon should yield a start - there is a book "Rally Car Preparation" or something like that. Also, contact your local car clubs that do rallys. Finally, do the usual web searches to get connected to the right boards / lists that are knowledgable.

Good luck!

 

I got the emails of the scruitineers who check to make sure the cars are in rally legal, and what class they should be in. I intend to have teh cage built by a custom cage builder, because I can't weld...I don't want to lern on something that if I screw up costs lots of cash, and posibly my life.

As for the suspention I lernt that I need something longer, and relativly stiff. Somwhare I read that a general formula for spring rate is: total mass of car/ spring length. I figure this would yeild around 350lb spring rates. As for shocks I lernt that the don't need to be stiff, but they need to be good on teh rebound, to stop spring ausalation. ( i buchered that one lol). And yes I am talking about WRC style, but not to that level. I just want to race a relativly stock car ( stock except for the suspention, and posibly rats nest removal).

Thanks Ted.

 

I rallied extensively in Australia, as a co driver, zero car, official and road crew, there are classes within such as Group N, and usually a more lenient class to let in local cars.

As mentioned be sure you do have your homework done. I think you'll find 350 is too soft, seems that autocross cars are using 375lb in the front and your front is going to do a lot more work than a short course flat surface car.

You also need to be sure your shocks wont overheat and fail while working this hard.

What other modifications are you looking at if any, panhard, bushings, upper control arms, what is legal, what isn't.

Research will save you money doing things twice, and will help you get the car legal faster.

 

I paln to do shocks, and bushings for sure. I also want to remove the rats nest if that is legal. The class I will be rallying in, will be hopfuly production 3 rally racing. In this calss the cars basicly are OEM, except for suspention. As for shocks I have some nice bilstiens recomended for me. I have teh part numbers, but I only found the front shocks on Bilstien website.

Bushing I intend to use convetional, stock rubber bushings. As for the other things I will replace them as they need replacing... Funds are low for me. I am also going to replace the break, fuel and clutch lines with braded stainles steel, because they are tougher, and my current lines are barly hanging in they are so rusted.

I am also doing some cost calculations, so if you know how much the springs would cost roughly, that would be great.

Thanks Ted