Valdez

iTrader: (1)

My secondaries are flooding. Anybody know why this could happen? I have a 12A with Nikki carb. The front fuel sight glass shows half. Can't see the back.

When I got the car, the air vent solenoid was disconnected as well. Can somebody explain what this does? In a previous post I was told that if this was disconnected, it could cause problems. I tried hooking it up to switched power (only gets power when the key is in the on position). When I did this, a compartment in the carb near the solenoid was filling up and spilling over with gas, which doesn't seem right. See the following picture.

Anyboldy know what could be wrong? Any ideas are appreciated.

bstrange99

It's all right here. Do the test as described in the last post. I think your solenoid is bad.
This thread should be in the faq's.
https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/12a-nikki-flooding-issues-look-first-587285/

DavidMyers53

Mine was doing the same thing beause the air (bowl) vent solenoid was bad. Do a search and there is a good write up on how to remove it. It's purely emissions, so the car will still run right without it. You can't buy them at the Mazda dealer any more and I haven't seen one for sale on eBay...

- David

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Have you even tried following the advice from your last thread? Have you found a fuel pressure regulator and gauge anywhere on the car, oh I can answer that, it's NO. Have you installed a fuel pressure regulator and gauge, oh, I can answer that too, NO. Have you removed the low pressure pump, or the high pressure pump in the tank, I can answer that one too, NO.

Until you start following the advice you have been given in your other thread, you will continue to flood and never get the engine running. Why you have chosen to ignore it, I have no clue. I, and most other members are more than willing to offer advice and help to solve the probem, in fact, we have offered more than one option and you have not followed any of them, have you? Had you followed our advice, the engine would have been running some time ago. If it's a question of money, suck it up and spend it, or sell the damn car.

All of the advice you have recieved up til now in this thread will not get you up and running because that advice is not based on the full set of facts. Decide which pump you want to run, remove the other from the system, then install the appropriate fpr, fpg, fuel hose and clamps If you run the FI pump, use only FI rated fuel hose, clamps, fpr and fpg. Fwiw, the same connector that powers the intank FI pump also carries the wires for the fuel gauge. Had you downloaded and read the FSM, you would know this already.

Once you make these needed mods and are still having trouble, then ask what's next. If I'm coming across as a hardass, good. I'm not being any more of an *** than you are being stubborn and choosing not to do what needs to be done.

Good luck, you'll need it.

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

Hi, I appreciate all the advice so far. I am not trying to cause conflict or get under anybody’s skin here. Nor do I think I am. Now some replies in my defense:

Yes, I have tried most but not all of it. Yes, I looked, but did not find an fpr, as this car does not have one.

You are correct on this one. However didn’t do this because I found that there was a problem with the fuel pump not pumping. I figured I would address this first, so that I am at least getting fuel. Why regulate nothing?

I didn’t remove the pump since now it is pumping. I intend to keep an eye on it to see if it will give me problems and if so I will need to replace it.


It partly is a question of money, since I’d rather not buy parts I do not necessarily need. I keep finding other possible problems to look into, take care of and test before starting to throw money at something that might not necessarily be the cause. Once I am convinced that the fuel pressure is too high then, your advice on a fuel regulator will be put into effect, until then it will be kept in the back of my head.

Why is the advice so far in this thread no good? I decided to start a new thread to deal with the specific issue of what I am seeing happen with the solenoid and secondaries. The last thread didn’t resolve this, but it did help resolve a few other things I found wrong. It was getting too long and people didn’t seem to have the attention to want to wade through all that stuff to see what point things are at, hence a more straight-to-the-point thread.

I decided on the stock 12A pump that is now pumping. If it causes problems again I will replace it. Fwiw, I did get the FSM and looked it over. I had always known the wire for the guage was in the same connector as the pump, as there are no more connectors to the tank, just didn’t know which wire to look at in particular, or if there was something else that could cause the gauge to show empty when it is not.

Yes, you are being a hard ***, and an inappropriate one at that.
All the advice, so far is welcome, but don’t get mad if you tell me to buy something, and I decide not to. I think the problem could be something else. I don’t care if somebody ignores my advice even if I am right, why do you? I tried your other suggestions, just not this one in particular. Remember, this place is for advice and nobody is required to follow it. You may know a decent amount about these cars, but you are not under the hood or the one who has to spend the money. If you would like to buy me an FPR, and I decide not to try it out then you can ream me out.

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

I tested the solenoid and it is operating fine. Clicks when power supplied and clicks back with no power. It seems to be operating as it should, but why woud gas come out of where the arrow is pointing when it is hooked up? Is this related to the secondaries pooling with fuel when the butterflies are closed?

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

For the last time, until you install an fpr and a gauge to get your fuel pressure under control, it doesn't matter what else you do. Even if all of the carb parts work correctly, including the solenoids, if the fuel pressure is too high, it will still flood, just like it's doing now.

rOtAryIsbEttEr

i dont know whats going on with ur fpr or whatever but did you hook that solenoid up to a 12v power soruce? cuz its only supposed to get like 5.5 or something like that.

oh, and do as T. says, he usually knows what he's talking about.

Stanis

iTrader: (2)

This is not always the case. Mine did the same thing! It was because the evaporative emissions lines were not connected to a charcoal cannister or routed in the proper manner. Previous owner's fault! So when the engine was cranking, there was pressure buildup and when key went off, pressure pushed gas into carb throat. Simple as that.

The purpose of the air vent solenoid is to allow the evaporated gas from the carb float bowls to be collected in the charcoal cannister, then when the engine runs.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Read his other thread, this one doesn't have the background of the 12A install in a 2nd gen body. I guess he thought he would find a different answer he liked better with a new thread, problem hasn't changed.

1badFB

iTrader: (1)

I think the main thing to determine is if the carb is actually seeing pressures meant for a F.I. engine. Until you know for sure that its seeing low enough pressure for a carburator (>5psi), we have to assume thats the problem.

Now this doesnt mean going and getting a guage and regulator, but to be sure your not seeing high pressure your gonna have to find a fuel injection pressure guage, and see if the pressure registers. The reason you should use a F.I. guage is because if it is seeing high pressure, it would most likely ruin the 0-5 PSI carb guages.

If I were you, Id head down to canadian tire and see if they will rent you the guage. I think that is something available for rent there, but if its not your just gonna have to find one elsewhere. Your most likely on your own in regards to how to connect it to your fuel line. Youll probably need to find a barbed adaptor for the guage to attach it to your fuel line, if it doesnt have one, then all you need to do is attach it to your fuel line at the carb, crank the car over and see what it reads.
If the pressure isnt hopping up to the 50+ psi range, youve most likely got the fuel pump working right.
Until we know that for sure, as trochoid said this is all sorta pointless. It sounds to me like somehow the guy just got lucky with the carb/high pressures it was seeing, and it ran for a while until the carb just gave up somehow. Now I know this sounds weird because carbs are usually prety picky about the pressure they see, but this is the only situation I can possibly imagine has happened.

We all know that there is something wrong if gas is pouring out from where you show it is, but the first step in this situation is to figure out how much pressure you are running, then we can move ahead.

If you do have the correct fuel pressure and still cant get it running, maybe you need a bit of help. I live in winnipeg, and if your close I am willing to offer a hand. I also have a few nikki carbs in the basement that Id be willing to try / perhaps part with if it comes to that, and I know they work good.
Figure out what kinda fuel pressure youve got and report back.
I wish you luck my friend!

Kentetsu

Get a dental mirror and take a good look at the rear sight window. What fuel pump are you running? If you are using one from a 2nd gen then the answer to this problem is obvious. When Trochoid gives you advice, pay attention to it...

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. For those interested here are the previous posts: https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/flooding-out-ideas-574654/

It is using a stock 1st gen fuel pump, Nikki carb, choke and 12A engine. The rest is 2nd gen.

Thanks Gen1onr, I may take you up on your offer. I am near Mountain and MacGreggor. Give me a bit longer, I'll let you know when I give.

1badFB

iTrader: (1)

Ok, wow that other thread was much larger and covered more than I thought. I didnt know you were that close to having it run, I thought I had read everything....guess not..
As for the carb issues, sounds like the 12a pump after the disconnected 2nd gen pump should work. Im guessing that IF the air vent solenoid isnt the culprit maybe you just have some things out of order inside the carb.
The ignition however, may be a point of concern. How is the 2nd gen ignition setup for the 12a? looks like its using the 2nd gen stuff w/a cas. Im no expert on FC ignition stuff, but Im starting to think that the problem could lie there. How does it sound when it decides to run for the short bursts you speak of?

Was fred the one who installed the engine? Sounds like a prety interesting combination of FB and FC parts which is causing quite some confusion. You said you called whoever installed it, and if it was fred you should get ahold of him again and find out every last detail you can.
Problems like these can be a real PITA if you dont have all the details.

When you bought the car did it run? run good?
What original FC parts are still there, and what 12a parts have been swapped over?
When did the problems start?
What have you changed or gotten into trying to fix it?

Im sorry to ask these questions because I know most of it has been covered, but when its all in one place its easier to imagine what could have happened.

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

Hi Rotaryisbetter, I've heard from others that the solenoid is supposed to be 12V rather than 5.5V. Either way it is operating back and forth and spewing gas when power is applied.

Fossil_484, are you saying that if there is a problem with the charcoal cannister that could explain what I see? If I disconnect the canister could the problem go away? I will check into this some more.

Gen1onr, the ignition is stock 2nd gen. Not sure what you mean by the 'w/a cas' part. I don't think the 2nd gen ignition is a problem as it has run before. Yep Fred did the transplant. I've called him a few times and he gave me some ideas to try, but so far no luck he. He doesn't believe the setup to be an issue either. Something is just not working properly. It wasn't running before I bought it. The guy I got it from said it was running fine two weeks before I took it off his hands. Since then I've had it running about a dozen times, but not for long. Recently I haven't been able to get it to catch. The 12A parts are listed in my last post. It is still using the 2nd gen ignition, auto tranny, cooling components, and airbox.

As for various things I've tried or come across:
Problems I've found with the carb:
- missing gaskets: air vent soleniod, engine to carb gasket, and maybe one other.
- many loose bolts, missing some for the various brackets.
- old accelerator daiphram installed backwards and missing clip with pin ready to fall out.
- Oil metering pump was disconnected.
- airvent soleniod not hooked up. Why - not needed?
- float needle retaining clips were missing.
Gave it a general rebiuld and cleaning.


- Deflooded it and recharged many times.
- Strong even pulses from rotors.
- Fuel pump stopped pumping. Electrical connections were cleaned, it was unclogged and is now pumping.
- Tried spare leading and trailing coils as well as different plug wires.
- Tried 1 gen Nippon Denso plugs as well as 2nd gen plugs. All spark.

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

Success! Thar she blows. Running good now. I hope I can get the smoke cleared up before the fire department comes a knocking. All without an FPR. I fixed the real problem rather than bandaiding it. My stubbornness has paid off. In your face Trochiod.

IanS

iTrader: (4)

And the real problem was ______ .... Please fill in this blank.

Kentetsu

"In your face Trochoid"

Give it up man, what was the problem with it?

Valdez

iTrader: (1)

Rebuilt and cleaned the carb. Found a disconnected oil metering rod. Added a little oil down the carb cause it was probably dry because of it. I wore out the battery trouble shooting it, so I got a new battery. Also tried new NGK plugs and wires. Each one of these got me a little closer, but I'd have to say the plug helped the most. I tried three other sets that didn't come close. Thanks to those of gave helpful constructive advice.