bliffle

Here's pix of the tester and the ECU and the test socket under the floor. I just crimped the LED leads into the male spade lugs. The LEDs were $1.99 each at Radio Shack and the leads come with 1/4" stripped at the ends so they're ready to go. I had spade lugs already, but RS also sells an assortment for $1.99.

To test the ECU I ASSUME I have to pull the smaller connector off in order to access the terminals.

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

To test the ECU properly you are going to have to start and run the car first a couple of times to try and get the engine somewhat to operating temp. You have to back probe where the connectors go into the ECU. The values you are looking for are the ones the are coming from the engine harness and that the ECU is reading. This has to be done with the connector left attached to the ECU and checking at the backside of the connector at each specific wire.

Have you swapped out the main fusible links with ones from the headlamps or others that you know are 100% ok?
Have you also unplugged the AFM and started the car as I instructed?

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

so were there any codes? if everything is okay in terms of codes, the LED should turn on for about 2 seconds after turning the key to 'ON'. Then the LED will turn off. If there are codes, it will start blinking.

bliffle

No codes. The LED turned on for 2 secs after I turned the key to ON, then the LED turned off, and nothing happened. No matter how long I waited.

bliffle

I just tried the engine again with the AFM unplugged. No luck: won't start at all. Inserted the FP jumper and tried again: no go at all.

I went over the fusible links again, both testing for 12v. at both ends and pulling them out and testing with the ohmmeter. All 5 tested 12v. and 0 ohms.

But now the battery is starting to sound sad, so I'm going to make sure my spare batteries are charged up before I try again tomorrow.

I also have some spare fusible links in my spares box, so I'll check those out tonight to use tomorrow, and I also plan to swap in some other ignitors.

Whereas it used to start , run for 10 secs., then die suddenly, now it starts for a second then dies. Or, and this is new, it won't start at all. I'm starting to worry that it's flooded.

I put new NGK BR8EQ14's in a couple weeks ago (pulling the Autolite 2626's that I'd been using for a year) because I thought the old plugs were wornout because the SE wouldn't start as easily. Usually I just put the key in and turn and it starts properly, but lately I had to give it a little gas pedal for the first few secs. The new plugs didn't seem to improve that. Maybe something was already degenerating then.

Right now the AFM is unplugged and I don't know if I should try again tomorrow with it in or out. Ditto for the FP jumper. But I think I'll put the old 2626's back in when I swap ignitors again.

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

If your battery is low you are probably flooding out. The engine should start without the AFM connector plugged in.

Get your spare charged battery in there, hook everything back to normal then attempt to restart.

I know there is something that is eluding me here. I'll have to sleep on it.

bliffle

The way it is now the SE isn't going to start at all, so maybe I won't be able to test the ECU at all, except by substitution test with the ECU that should arrive this week.

The poor car is starting to look rather tatty with dust settling all over it and tools and parts starting to accumulate inside it, but I can wash it today or tomorrow.

RXnos1200

iTrader: (24)

Didn't see if you tried swapping the thermal sensor with the green square plug on the back of the water pump in your thread yet. Have you tried a different one yet?

cjf

iTrader: (1)

I feel your pain....having same problems..I will keep an eye here to see if it can help me too.. sheezzz these cars can sometimes drive you crazy!!!

cjf

bliffle

Haven't tried that YET, but I've been thinking of it. If I can get one today (they're about $30 which isn't bad at this point) I'll give it a try. there are a bunch of autostores around here, Kragens, NAPA, Kohlweiss, etc.

bliffle

EVERY car on the road today has the potential for these problems. More and more electronics has been added to cars to solve problems of smog, gas mileage, performance, etc. Really, a modern car is a computer with an engine attached.

My local auto mechanic (who I've kinda trained in on the FB until he actually likes it) who just has a 2 bay shop with one regular mechanic, gets a lot of modern cars from his upscale customers, and he has found that he must spend the money to have the proper diagnostic tools to solve customers problems. He was showing me a little hand-held gadget that he just spent $16K on.

The FB is in the gray area AFTER plain engines and BEFORE full-fledged computer diagnostics, so we get some of the problems and benefits of each.

But the benefit is that as DIY mechanics we can debug problems without $10K equipments.

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

After spending time attempting to duplicate your issue on my own SE I have concluded that you probably have a bad fuel pump.

I would recommend disconnecting the fuel inlet hose from the rail and getting a coffee can or other suitable container. Then jumper the fuel pump at the connector and see what type of fuel flow you have.

The symptoms are pointing to just enough pressure to open the injectors to fire but not enough volume to keep the engine running.

bliffle

Sounds reasonable. I'll try it in the morning. I also have a new Water Pump Thermo Sensor too.

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

That's always a good item to change out on the SE. It is the one sensor on the SE that causes the most issues with fuel economy and flooding when it fails. Also the connector to the sensor has a tendency to deteriorate over a period of time and cause a poor connection.

bliffle

Thanks for the info. I'll check the connector carefully and use some Contact Cleaner at least.

The thermo sensor, connector, fresh battery and cleaned fusible links go in this afternoon, when I find (I hope) my pressure tester for the fuel pressure test.

bliffle

When my spare battery is charged and I've found my fuel pressure pump, I'll go out and change the Thermo sensor (applying some contact cleaner) , change battery, change fusible links to the clean ones I've prepared, test fuel pressure, etc.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Be careful with the connector as it will probably be very brittle. The good thing is that it is the same type of connector as the fuel injectors, so you can buy a new one at the autoparts store if it does crumble. It will just be black instead of green.

bliffle

Put in the new Thermo Sensor, but it was a bear. The connector housing crumbled when I detached it. Put the new sensor in, then started trying to connect it, which was difficult and uncertain because of the deteriorated condition of the connector. I'll try to find where that wire pair goes and test from there. I know that the new Sensor has 2000 ohms resistance. So did the old one I pulled out (so, it was probably not defective). I may have taken a step backward. But I thoink I can fashion a new connector from some small female spade lugs. then I'll bring that out on 3" pigtails to attach thru a more robust connector in place of the crumbled one. that way a guy can connect to the Sensor before screwing it in, which is easy, then attach the floating connector afterwards to avoid cable twisting.

Damn 2 amp charger still working on my spare battery. But I still have no reason to attempt starting.

Replaced 5 fusible links with cleaned up and tested replacements. Contact Cleaner employed.

Can't find fuel pressure tester. Think I bought it 2 eons ago and threw it out 1 eon ago. Gotta borrow or rent one.

bliffle

It already crumbled. Good to know it's a common connector. I'm going to bring it out on short pigtails so that in the future the pigtails can be attached/removed from sensor before screwing/unscrewing sensor into water pump housing. It'll mean another floating 2-wire connector to join the multitude.

Maybe I finally gotta get a heftier Battery Charger while I'm at the autostore. I remember building my old homemade charger 2 eons ago from war surplus electrons parts (big hefty selenium full-bridge rectifier cheap and 20v. aircraft xformer). That war was....

bliffle

Nobody around here has that connector, so unless I find one at the JY or eBay I'll just improvise.

An FI fuel pressure gauge costs more than $100, so it's cheaper to just replace the Fuel Pump/Filter which I can get new for $90. If I can do that in less than an hour that's what I'll do. Probably ought to be replaced anyhow.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

hmm..i bought my connectors (my FI connectors were crumbling) from autozone a couple years back. About $6 each. I wouldn't be surprised if the guys there didn't know that they carried them. They were over on the self with the misc connectors with pigtails and such. I believe the package said "Bosch connector" or something like that. Black plug that looks like the coolant temp sensor connector with black/white wires coming out. I'll run by my autozone and take a look. I'll write down the part number so you can try your local store. If you can't get one, but I can, I can pick you up one or 2 and send them your way.

I also have a FI tester around someplace, but I know mine wasn't $100+. I believe that I got it for about $35 or $40.

Kent

bliffle

Thanks. Sounds good.

I HAD a fuel pressure tester that I'm sure I got for about $30 many years ago, but I think the FI pressures are much higher so it's a different tester.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Well, I tried autozone and advanced..they don't have them anymore. The guy that I spoke with said that this kind of stuff doesn't sell very well and gets cut from being stocked.

It looks like it takes EV1 style connectors:
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_MILLED.asp

http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_CONNECT.asp

bliffle

Anyhow, I don't think the thermo sensor has been a problem. The FSM p. 71 says I should get 3 short pulses (from the ECM tester) in rapid succession if the connector is disconnected. That's an open circuit, so I inferred that when the Sensor fails it opens. I also tested the Sensor with an ohmmeter and it shows 2000 ohms at room temp, just like the new one I put in. So the sensor is probably a red herring. If I have to I'll solder two pigtails onto the recessed pins and bring that out 3" to bullet connectors to mate with the cleaned-up old harness leads. Then I'll pot it with silicon. Unless, of course, I can pickup a proper connector somewhere. For the moment it seems OK the way a cobbled it back together, tho I might add some epoxy to hold it together.

I also have a fuel pump (same one everybody seems to use) coming that is new and only cost me $60 with shipping and local auto stores have those heavy metal fuel filters for $15-$30, so that's easy.

I may be able to do a fuel volume test but unless I devise a fuel pressure meter that's about the test for fuel. It can't be that I'm not getting electric to the pump because I can hear it working with the jumper in place.

I'm concentrating on fuel problems because the last few tests I ran when the engine would run for a couple seconds and I had a voltmeter on the coils, would show juice for a split second after the engine died. So I concluded that the coil voltage loss was the effect, not the cause, of the engine dieing.

If I can change the fuel pump and filter in under an hour and with a minimum of fuss and just put the LR corner up on a jackstand and reach under (maybe drop under for a minute) I'll fix it at the curb. Otherwise I gotta talk to the Boss at Ye Olde Village Motors to get a quote and a tow.

Good thing I've got plenty of cars to drive! But anyone who has a car more than 10 years old must have 2 cars, I figure. Otherwise you have to submit to the mercies of auto mechanics that get more expensive every year, or buy a new car and trade every 5 years. It's all expensive. And there's NO car that is trouble-free.

I think that within a few years we'll have all-electric cars that will fit in nicely with computer controlled and monitored systems. Mechanical parts will be reduced to a few final drive parts.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

you have pm!