Replacing the Clutch, and diagnosis of failure
10-11-09 | 10:12 PM
#26
Good luck getting it all sorted and back together. Do you have access to an impact wrench/gun and a 2 1/8" or 54mm socket?
This past week and a half I've done three clutch jobs and three engine swaps/installs. This week I'm doing two more clutch jobs and one engine install. It never ends.
This past week and a half I've done three clutch jobs and three engine swaps/installs. This week I'm doing two more clutch jobs and one engine install. It never ends.
10-11-09 | 11:16 PM
#27
Man, did I ever mention how much I HATE working on cars???
Finally got the @$%!@% flywheel off, and the pilot bearing out. But what a cluster that was. Had to use the dremel to get the pilot bearing out, and when I went to put on the attachment I wanted to use, the damn dremel broke. Spent the next half hour repairing that.
And I'm sure that most of you are aware of how tough it is to get that blasted nut off the flywheel. What is it, like 800,000 foot pounds that thing is torqued on with? But of course, when we installed this motor we did it right, which means using lock tite on that nut. Bent a 4 foot prybar into a horseshoe shape, but that nut finally let loose.
When the nut broke free, the 6 foot pipe I was using on the breaker bar fell right on my foot. Not the healthy foot, of course, but the broken foot, which made me see stars. Time to break out the codein and call it a day. Well, after I do some online searching for a pilot bearing seal, and a rear main seal (since I'm that far into this, might as well). And I have to return that useless pilot bearing removal tool and slide hammer to Autozone, so I'll see if they resurface flywheels to. Then that's it for today.
Hell of a way to spend my 41st birthday. But at least I've got a little sports car to work on. Could be stuck working on my dad's '82 chevette or something instead (again). So that's the end of my rant, and I'll stop my complaining now. At least I made some progress....
Finally got the @$%!@% flywheel off, and the pilot bearing out. But what a cluster that was. Had to use the dremel to get the pilot bearing out, and when I went to put on the attachment I wanted to use, the damn dremel broke. Spent the next half hour repairing that.
And I'm sure that most of you are aware of how tough it is to get that blasted nut off the flywheel. What is it, like 800,000 foot pounds that thing is torqued on with? But of course, when we installed this motor we did it right, which means using lock tite on that nut. Bent a 4 foot prybar into a horseshoe shape, but that nut finally let loose.
When the nut broke free, the 6 foot pipe I was using on the breaker bar fell right on my foot. Not the healthy foot, of course, but the broken foot, which made me see stars. Time to break out the codein and call it a day. Well, after I do some online searching for a pilot bearing seal, and a rear main seal (since I'm that far into this, might as well). And I have to return that useless pilot bearing removal tool and slide hammer to Autozone, so I'll see if they resurface flywheels to. Then that's it for today.
Hell of a way to spend my 41st birthday. But at least I've got a little sports car to work on. Could be stuck working on my dad's '82 chevette or something instead (again). So that's the end of my rant, and I'll stop my complaining now.
At least I made some progress....Also, I have the RB flywheel wrench. Works great popping the nut off, then flipping it around and using it as a prybar and popping the flywheel off (and onto your foot). If that doesn't work, the RB 2.5" exhaust pipe section I have is a great cheater bar.
Also, Happy b-day old fart!
10-11-09 | 11:19 PM
#28
Interested in this as well.
10-12-09 | 08:07 AM
#31
I have always used my 3/4 drive air gun for flywheel nut. Pop it on there and let it keep trying for 10 to 20 seconds. Never had an issue. Just have to be sure it is a quality gun, turned all the way up.
-billy
-billy
10-12-09 | 10:43 AM
#32
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From: Grand Rapids Michigan
Alright, when I get out of work I'll be hitting some transmission shops to see who will give me the best deal on resurfacing the flywheel. Autozone doesn't provide this service, which is fine with me (I'd rather have a little confidence in the people doing the job).
I'll also have to hit my buddy up for the gaskets. Rock Auto has the pilot bearing seal for something like $1.19, but then they hit you for $8.00 in shipping. Crazy....
Also, my new racing partner has a bigger garage, a lift, air tools, and a bunch of other toys. Despite all of that, I decided to do this at my place simply because I knew with my busted foot I'd be doing just a bit of work each day. The time I wasted in travelling from my place to his wouldn't have made up for the nice toys he's got. Besides, it's not going too badly even with my more (economical) setup.
I'll also have to hit my buddy up for the gaskets. Rock Auto has the pilot bearing seal for something like $1.19, but then they hit you for $8.00 in shipping. Crazy....
Also, my new racing partner has a bigger garage, a lift, air tools, and a bunch of other toys. Despite all of that, I decided to do this at my place simply because I knew with my busted foot I'd be doing just a bit of work each day. The time I wasted in travelling from my place to his wouldn't have made up for the nice toys he's got. Besides, it's not going too badly even with my more (economical) setup.
10-12-09 | 02:43 PM
#34
Alright, when I get out of work I'll be hitting some transmission shops to see who will give me the best deal on resurfacing the flywheel. Autozone doesn't provide this service, which is fine with me (I'd rather have a little confidence in the people doing the job).
I'll also have to hit my buddy up for the gaskets. Rock Auto has the pilot bearing seal for something like $1.19, but then they hit you for $8.00 in shipping. Crazy....
Also, my new racing partner has a bigger garage, a lift, air tools, and a bunch of other toys. Despite all of that, I decided to do this at my place simply because I knew with my busted foot I'd be doing just a bit of work each day. The time I wasted in travelling from my place to his wouldn't have made up for the nice toys he's got. Besides, it's not going too badly even with my more (economical) setup.
I'll also have to hit my buddy up for the gaskets. Rock Auto has the pilot bearing seal for something like $1.19, but then they hit you for $8.00 in shipping. Crazy....
Also, my new racing partner has a bigger garage, a lift, air tools, and a bunch of other toys. Despite all of that, I decided to do this at my place simply because I knew with my busted foot I'd be doing just a bit of work each day. The time I wasted in travelling from my place to his wouldn't have made up for the nice toys he's got. Besides, it's not going too badly even with my more (economical) setup.
to resurface a mazda flywheel. Compared to boinger flywheels,
the rotary ones will look kind of strange to a lot of boinger shops
due to the builtin counter weight. They can't just use a regular
mount to the lathe to turn it down, they have to use a conical
mount in the center and only machine the contact surface and then
make sure the bolt surface has the right offset from the new
surface and machine that next.
Anyway just ask if they've done one before, if the answer is no,
move on. Let your fingers do the walking. Also I wouldn't trust
pepzoneparts shops to do this correctly ever. Look for an engine
machine shop around your area.
10-12-09 | 04:26 PM
#35
Atkins Rotary has a proper machine set up specifically to do rotary flywheels. I've gotten several flywheels done there. For an even quicker turn around time, you can exchange your flywheel with one they've already done; that worked for me.
This is not a plug for Atkins. I'm just relaying something that worked for me.
This is not a plug for Atkins. I'm just relaying something that worked for me.
10-12-09 | 08:04 PM
#36
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Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Seattle, WA
Hey, so just to touch upon the actual methods of working, what are the benefits of pulling the motor with the tranny vs. just pulling the motor? You don't need the transmission to replace the clutch and it seems like it'd be more compact to work with just the motor.
10-13-09 | 04:31 AM
#37
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,162
Likes: 1
From: London, Ontario, Canada
It is far easier to align and reattach the transmission to the engine outside of the car. It can be quite the pain to do it underneath the car or with the trans already in, because lining the two up is more difficult with the body in the way. With it out of the car you can set it on a flat surface and get right up close to make sure everything is in line before tightening things down. I've done two clutches this year and if I had an engine hoist the whole assembly would have come right out, which probably would have saved me some time and frustration. Try lifting the trans while lying under the car using your feet to pump the jack handle and your hands to not only keep the trans steady, but also move it around to get it in line with the engine. Not easy, and far from fun.
10-14-09 | 10:37 AM
#39
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From: Grand Rapids Michigan
Make sure whatever shop does the resurface understands how
to resurface a mazda flywheel. Compared to boinger flywheels,
the rotary ones will look kind of strange to a lot of boinger shops
due to the builtin counter weight. They can't just use a regular
mount to the lathe to turn it down, they have to use a conical
mount in the center and only machine the contact surface and then
make sure the bolt surface has the right offset from the new
surface and machine that next.
Anyway just ask if they've done one before, if the answer is no,
move on. Let your fingers do the walking. Also I wouldn't trust
pepzoneparts shops to do this correctly ever. Look for an engine
machine shop around your area.
to resurface a mazda flywheel. Compared to boinger flywheels,
the rotary ones will look kind of strange to a lot of boinger shops
due to the builtin counter weight. They can't just use a regular
mount to the lathe to turn it down, they have to use a conical
mount in the center and only machine the contact surface and then
make sure the bolt surface has the right offset from the new
surface and machine that next.
Anyway just ask if they've done one before, if the answer is no,
move on. Let your fingers do the walking. Also I wouldn't trust
pepzoneparts shops to do this correctly ever. Look for an engine
machine shop around your area.
With your comments, which sound like good advice, I'm suddenly skeptical as to finding a competent shop to resurface the flywheel for me. I never would have thought about that bit concerning the offset on the bolt surfaces. Looks like I'll have to save up a bit of cash, and find the proper place to get this done. This will push the project out a couple more weeks, but better safe than sorry.
The only thing I hate more than working on cars, is doing the work over because you screwed up and took a shortcut the first time.
03-19-10 | 11:52 PM
#40
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From: Grand Rapids Michigan
Okay, time to bring this baby back from the dead!
The idea of resurfacing my old stock flywheel has gone out the window in favor of a lightweight steel flywheel.
__________________________________________________ _______________________
Okay, finally got all the parts to finish my project!
I'll be using an Exedy street/strip clutch along with a Mazdatrix lightweight steel flywheel (Ebay special).
First of all, I'll tell you right up front, I spent too much money on the flywheel but didn't realize it until I added everything up.
Flywheel: $210.00 after shipping
Counterweight: $85.00 after shipping
Bolt kit (needed to mount): $40.00 after shipping
So, for a grand total of $335.00, I have a used flywheel, used counterweight, and a new bolt set. Well, all of those parts brand spanking new would have only cost $410.00 straight from Mazdatrix. Shoulda done me homework on that one! lol. But anyway....
Here is a shot of the counterweight bolted to the motor: (pic 1)
Okay, so it's not exactly bolted on yet, but it is in position and all set for the bolts. I did remember to use some locktite on them when I put them in.
Here is the flywheel and new clutch mounted onto the counterweight: (pic 2)
And that's it for tonight boys and girls...
The idea of resurfacing my old stock flywheel has gone out the window in favor of a lightweight steel flywheel.
__________________________________________________ _______________________
Okay, finally got all the parts to finish my project!
I'll be using an Exedy street/strip clutch along with a Mazdatrix lightweight steel flywheel (Ebay special).
First of all, I'll tell you right up front, I spent too much money on the flywheel but didn't realize it until I added everything up.
Flywheel: $210.00 after shipping
Counterweight: $85.00 after shipping
Bolt kit (needed to mount): $40.00 after shipping
So, for a grand total of $335.00, I have a used flywheel, used counterweight, and a new bolt set. Well, all of those parts brand spanking new would have only cost $410.00 straight from Mazdatrix. Shoulda done me homework on that one! lol. But anyway....
Here is a shot of the counterweight bolted to the motor: (pic 1)
Okay, so it's not exactly bolted on yet, but it is in position and all set for the bolts. I did remember to use some locktite on them when I put them in.
Here is the flywheel and new clutch mounted onto the counterweight: (pic 2)
And that's it for tonight boys and girls...
03-19-10 | 11:55 PM
#41
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From: Grand Rapids Michigan
I do have the Illuminas, Billy got them to me in record time so that they could sit on a shelf in my garage for a few months.
I'll have them installed before I head down for DGRR....
03-20-10 | 12:22 AM
#42
Ah, it's good to see that old counterweight going on to bigger and better things.
I can't remember what you said about the pressure plate. Is it a street strip or stock duty? Be sure to let me know how the effort feels and where it starts to grab. Thanks.
I can't remember what you said about the pressure plate. Is it a street strip or stock duty? Be sure to let me know how the effort feels and where it starts to grab. Thanks.
03-20-10 | 12:40 AM
#43
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From: Grand Rapids Michigan
I'll let you know how it feels Jeff, it is the street/strip version. Also, thanks a bunch for that counterweight, I would've been slightly screwed if I couldn't have found one.
03-20-10 | 01:19 AM
#45
hey sorry to jack this thread but Jeff20B i notice your online, think you could look at my thread quick about differntial bearing caps? i would like your input before i head out,
thanks
sorry OP...continue
thanks
sorry OP...continue
03-20-10 | 01:52 AM
#46
That's bad form, man. Should have sent me a PM. You're old enough (your post count is high enough in other words). I'll check out your thread, and I hope some mods come in and clean this mini mess up for kentetsu. Next time, PM, ok? Thanks.
03-31-10 | 07:34 AM
#47
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From: Grand Rapids Michigan
Well, I screwed up so maybe this writeup will be even better as a result. 
I got the motor and tranny back into the car, and most of the stuff hooked back up along with reinstalling the radiator. Then it occurred to me that I should test the clutch to make sure everything was honkey dorey. Well, bad news! The clutch pedal went to the floor and just sat there. I can move the shift fork by hand, and I can still feel the throwout bearing sliding on the shaft, so I know that's not disconnected. But it never presses against the clutch.
What the hell did I do wrong that could result in this?!? Obviously, I'll have to pull the motor/tranny out again. Damnit! Please give me some idea on what I did so I can get this project back on schedule. Two weeks before I have to head out for North Carolina!!!
I got the motor and tranny back into the car, and most of the stuff hooked back up along with reinstalling the radiator. Then it occurred to me that I should test the clutch to make sure everything was honkey dorey. Well, bad news! The clutch pedal went to the floor and just sat there. I can move the shift fork by hand, and I can still feel the throwout bearing sliding on the shaft, so I know that's not disconnected. But it never presses against the clutch.
What the hell did I do wrong that could result in this?!? Obviously, I'll have to pull the motor/tranny out again. Damnit! Please give me some idea on what I did so I can get this project back on schedule. Two weeks before I have to head out for North Carolina!!!
03-31-10 | 09:21 AM
#48
If the pedal goes to the floor and stays there start looking at your clutch
master/slave setup. Its either spewing fluid all over or the slave is lose or theres a
lot of air. But even with air in the lines it should have some resistence.
Does the slave push against the fork ok? Is it bolted down correctly?
Maybe you left the PP or flywheel off? Use the inspection plate to make sure
it looks like everything is on right.
master/slave setup. Its either spewing fluid all over or the slave is lose or theres a
lot of air. But even with air in the lines it should have some resistence.
Does the slave push against the fork ok? Is it bolted down correctly?
Maybe you left the PP or flywheel off? Use the inspection plate to make sure
it looks like everything is on right.
03-31-10 | 11:20 AM
#49
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From: Grand Rapids Michigan
The hydraulics are functioning fine. I can move the shift fork by hand with the only resistance coming from the throwout bearing sliding on the shaft.
I haven't tripped over the flywheel or clutch, so I'm pretty sure I installed them before I reassembled everything.
I haven't tripped over the flywheel or clutch, so I'm pretty sure I installed them before I reassembled everything.
03-31-10 | 12:28 PM
#50
Uh-oh, that doesn't sound good. I'm dropping my trans this weekend to replace the pilot bearing, so if this happens to me, I will check this thread then, hoping some-one has answered your problem. Good luck.