64mgb

iTrader: (1)

I'm surprised. My car had been sitting for a long time...many things were rusted tight and grease was dried out in a lot of places. But I don't remember these bolts causing me any problem. Of course, I probably used the impact wrench, but they came right out.

Rich

skizzle84

what exactly is an impact wrench?

64mgb

iTrader: (1)

It's an air driven "wrench" that basically hammers away at the bolt which allows you to loosen difficult bolts/nuts more easily.

Rich

mazdaspeedrex

I hope you don't do your own work if you don't know that. Have you ever been to a tire shop or watched any type of racing? They use impact wrenches to get the lug nuts loose.

7aull

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for taking the time to post 64mgb! Great pix!
Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska

skizzle84

I'm learning, and yes I do my own work. So too bad for your hopes.
Thanks 64mgb.

85rotarypower

I did the balljoints on my car a while ago. The car hasn't moved much recently, but I do have roughly 3000 miles on them. The car has about 180K miles (275k KM) and I didn't tack the ball joints or put any clip on them. No loosening at all. Personally, I wouldn't tack them at all. After seeing what kinda heat can be generated from tack welding, I wouldn't want to even attempt it, not to mention trying to get them out again. The heat would probably take about 20K miles off the life of the ball joint.

gabardinemarine

Thanks for the tips guys... I've just spent two hours pulling my front end out from under my '79 and the ball joints stopped my in my tracks. I don't have a lot of specialty tools, and was scratching my head a bit on how to get them out. I'll be heading to the local machine shop first thing in the morning.

Thanks again.

Carl

iTrader: (2)

I also just replaced ball joints on my race car. I did tack weld them. A racing buddy had one come loose so.. The tack I put in should be easily removable later (plus I have a couple of spare control arms :-) ) (Is that a double chin smiley face?) As far as the ball joint remover goes, Autozone loans tools for free. They will put the total cost of the tool on your credit card, but refund it when you return the tool. That is the best deal around.

Good Luck,

Carl Johnk

BlackWorksInc

The lower control arm ball joints are capped with the strut/spindle assembly. I would assume that the clearance between the top of the ball joint stud and the strut is very minimal which should help prevent the joint from failing completely.

I.E. The castle nut breaks the cotterpin, unscrews, and can't pop off completely because of there being no room for it to actually unthread completely off the stud.

I don't think I will tack weld the joints that I put into my control arms because we had to put a ton of force to press them in straight.

Could perhaps after market Ball Joints be slightly oversized, or the ribbing on the outside be slightly oversized to accommodate for expansion caused by removing the old joint?

13BstreetportFB

i was searching around the forum about ball joints because mine just popped out... i notice the problem when i was leaving my driveway. it was harder than usual to steer. i drove it around the block and knew for sure that something was wrong. looked underneath and found my right ball joint was completely off the control arm.

after reading this thread I AM GOING TO TACK ON MY BALL JOINTS. oh yeah one more thing... i replaced my ball joints about 6 month ago.

TACK ON BALL JOINTS from now on!!!!

Driftwood

+1 for tack welding them in. I will have mine welded tomorrow at work.

Keith13b

iTrader: (6)

I've been turning wrenches for over 25 years and I have never even heard of tacking the ball joints in. So, after following this thread, I called up an old racing buddy of mine who ownes his own speed shop. He told me that welding the joints in is an old "shadetree" technique that people used to do to fix a botched install. I was advised that the heat from the welding could have some negative impacts on the life of the joint if not done correctly, and that if the joint is loose, the arm should be replaced. The welding technique was a poor mans fix that pretty much ment that the next time the joint needed replacing - a new arm was required.

I can't speak about the welding since I have never performed it on a ball joint, but I have replaced dozens and dozens of ball joint jobs on many different vehicles, and never had an issue or a joint coming loose. I can see how the heat could cause problems, and I can see how welding might have benifits. But in all honesty, if I was worried about it coming loose, I would just buy a new arm. Using the propper (free rental) tool to remove and install the joints is fairly simple and easy to use. The only way I could fathom screwing up the install is if the installer didn't line up the ribs from the new joint when installing it into recesses of the old. Thus stretching the LCA. But many of the non-oem joints are smooth socketed to alleviate this anyway.

I think this is just one of thorse debates that people get all heated about. It depends on how you were raised and who taught you how to change a ball joint. Neither way is right or wrong. Just use common sence, take your time and do what you are comfortable with. The important thing is that yo took the time to replace worn parts on your car, as many people don't. So kudos to you! Good luck working on your car!!!

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

you have a point, but i think i disagree. here is why.

on cars that have replaceable ball joints, the ball joint is pressed into something substantial, and then there is a C clip to keep it from moving. the rx3 has a ball joint pressed into a cast steel control arm. on a honda the ball joint presses into a cast iron spindle.

on these cars the ball joint just presses into a thin stamping. obviously mazda didn't think it was a great idea to have people pressing stuff in and out of there, so they sell the whole arm complete.

there is also no C clip, and unlike the honda, if the ball joint falls out, there IS a place for it to go.

so some aftermarket company sells a ball joint that fits, which is good, but IMO if i did mine i would like some kind of c clip or set screw or something

DivinDriver

iTrader: (15)

So basically; tacking the new joints is a compensation for having replaced a part the factory said "don't replace!"

Sounds reasonable.

zaridar

iTrader: (3)

ball joint are 42.99 from autozone up here with a lifetime warranty why rock auto??

Keith13b

iTrader: (6)

Autozone has two kinds, one has the retaining ring with a smooth surface, and the other has no retaining ring but does have the ribbed friction area to match OEM.

You can ask for either one - same part #, just depends on supplier.

The ones I got a few weeks ago, I used the non-clipped ones with the ribs. The ribs matched nicely with the original slot and when I pressed it in, it was damn tight. I feel comfortable they aren't going anywhere.

I can understand wanting the retaing ring or welding it if you're stuck with some POS made ball joint that doesn't fit well to begin with or for those that had trouble pressing out the old joint and stretched the opening. Welding it would be the best option before replacing the LCA.

Anyone know how deep (hot) to put the weld? Is the weld on the top or bottom? Just a tack or a few stitch welds? Just curious for my own knowledge.

zaridar

iTrader: (3)

just a decent tack or two with a little bit of penetration should do. its not like the weld is doing the majority of the holding... just a safety measure

BlackWorksInc

I have a hard time believing that a tack weld is going to prevent a ball joint from loosening when it took over a few tons to press it in. That type of force would shear a tack weld.

Not saying that you shouldn't tack them, just that I can't believe such forces are mitigated by small tacks...

jonathan_ed3

iTrader: (1)

Great write-up! Good photos.

FYI......

The autozone, and for that matter, pretty much all "chain" store suspension parts are TRASH. They're all made by the exact same supplier, they're all made in china, or thailand, or some other similar place, and they are all horrible. If you notice, most of the chain stores even use the same part numbers!!!

Sure, you have a "lifetime" warranty, but do you really want to be under your car once a year replacing all that crap?

For perspective, I manage a chain auto parts store.....so, I'm not speaking out of context here.

The margin on these chinese suspension parts is *literally* 80-90% on some numbers. That's why they can offer a lifetime warranty.

Spend a few bucks more and buy Moog or a similar AMERICAN brand made in the USA. Now you won't have that paper warranty, but you're buying a MUCH better product.

If you shop online, in many cases you can get Moog or similar for just a few bucks more than you would at the chain stores. I bought all name brand online and came out cheaper than I would have at my own store using my employee discount.

It's funny, at my store we used to sell name brand suspension AND the off-brand cheap stuff. People didn't want to spend the extra $$$ to get the good stuff. Now we ONLY sell the chinese stuff, and customers are getting mad because we don't sell the good stuff! As a parts supplier, we're screwed either way.

Driftwood

Keith13B you have some good points. My arms are a bit of a hack job, the press fit back in was not tight at all....you could wiggle one of them back out. But after the welding they should be good for the life of the car. They already lasted since 1979. I am very confident in the job one of our fabricators did with a little Miller wire machine. 3 stitches on the bottom and 4 on top. That joint is not moving. Cooled each arm in the sink after each side. They never really got hot.

EvilWankel

iTrader: (2)

Hopefully you didn't dip it in water right after welding. That causes the metal to contract and can cause cracks.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

you have a point. i'm sure if you got a good press, and it was street car, it would be fine. there is a margin though when its not a street car, and then i think the tack is to keep it from moving.

its maybe a bad example, but on the integra, we've started to pop spot welds in the body, it can't handle 1.2G+ loads, its a big difference from a street car

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

When I tack weld the ball joints, I tack them on the top. The idea being if the tack cracks at least there's a nub of metal left so the joint cannot physically slide out of the hole in the LCA. If tacked on the bottom, it will be very hard to grind off the tack to replace the joint later on.

zaridar

iTrader: (3)

and weakens and makes the metal more brittle...