Take-7

Ok, so lets start at the beginning. The vehicle in question is my newly acquired 1980 rx-7 (LS package, electronic ignition, 12a, 5spd.) It will turn over but will not fire up.
COMPRESSION: I've followed closely the MMO/ATF procedure TWICE. Compression looks good, i get three nice and even "PSSSHHTTT!!!" 's from each individual rotor spark plug hole.

SPARK: At first i thought it was the trailing coil, because when I turned it over to check for spark i could only get the Leading plugs to arc. Then some dude on here told me that the trailing system doesn't spark at idle (i guess that includes start up??? please verify) But to reiterate, I AM GETTING GOOD SPARK TO BOTH LEADING PLUGS.

FUEL: Now at this point I'd assume it is a fuel issue, however, I am getting PLENTY of fuel. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the problem was from being flooded, all four plugs when pulled are soaking wet with fuel, and once i found the bigger barrels of the carb literally FULL of fuel. plus the oil in this car REEKS of fuel... I have tried to "deflood it" but i can't seem to find a write up for Deflooding the 12a carb'd engines anwhere, only the fuel injected models. I've even let this thing sit for a few days and have gone out once or twice a day to turn it over without the spark plugs in it to make sure i get the fuel out of the system. When i go to fire it up, should i be pumping the accelerator or flooring it or no pedal at all???

OTHER ISSUES THAT MAY RELATE: The ignition on this car is gone, all the wires that should be sodered onto the ignition tumbler are loose and bare. I turn the car over by connecting a few wires together, but have no idea exactly which ones should be connected.
Right now i have the R/b and B wires tpaed together. Then to activate the starter I connect the W/r , B/w, and B/y all together. this seems to get the motor turning over quite well, again I don't know if i have it ALL together though.


As i try to turn it over i have been giving it gas, had a buddy try spraying starting fluid into the small barrels on the carb, this did nothing. But I found if I pump the accelerator and leave the wiring to the starter connected, I can get the engine to reach about 3K on the tach... if i remove the accelerator from the equation it goes back down to like 1 or 2k. but it never stays running at 3k, if I take the starter out of the equation it flatlines. As i do this the exhaust smokes like a banshee, so i know it is firing.
I've decided to save this iconic car, please help me to revive it.

thanks in advance to all who contribute. you guys are worth your weight in gold.

Take-7

since the oil is REALLY RICH with fuel, could that keep it from starting? it still has the OMP system.

Take-7

one other thing, this car WAs in washington at near sea level. i have it now in central oregon, at about 3400ft above. could this do it?

Take-7

did a lot more searching, turns out seafoam was made by God and passed down to man... i'll buy some tomorrow. also, i didn't know the carb'd models had an electric fuel pump, so i'll also disconnect the fuel pump before trying the deflood procedure. my pump may have been feeding fuel into the carb as i was holding the wiring together. my research of the wiring diagram shows that Black/white wire supplies power to the coils AND pump. i'll report back tomorrow with what happens. not that anyone here cares, judging by the amount of people that have chimed in so far... uh hem...

rick hayes

Hi there! I'd like to make a few suggestions because, well, I worry for your health and safety. I've had a similar experience getting my old project running, having seen gas running over the top of the carb. Not a good thing. Also had it rev really high, run only when pumping the gas pedal, and then die. Which by the way is really hard on the engine. So first thing: be very very VERY careful with the overflowing gas problem. Just the thought of holding wires together doing all that makes me cringe. Gross flooding could be from stuck needles or floats in the carb, high fuel pressure (if it has an aftermarket pump) or the electrical connection to the float bowl vent solenoid. My problem was because of that solenoid. Check out sterlingmetalworks.com, he has an explanation of what it does and great troubleshooting steps. You're basically circumventing all the electronics, so possibly that solenoid is not doing it's thing. Not a great idea to try to run it with gas in the oil, but no point in changing the oil until you stop the flooding. Gas in oil=poor lubrication, 'nuff said. I strongly recommend rebuilding your carb AND getting the ignition wires sorted before going much further. Also, I found my timing was not even close to correct, which made it hard to get it running, but couldn't use a timing light UNTIL it was running. There's a few explanations on this forum on how to set your timing statically, with photos. Check them out. And finally, Seafoam was made by SOME god or other, but please take my word for it, it won't solve what you are experiencing. It couldn't possibly dissolve enough carb crud while pouring all over, in and out of your carb. Good luck and take care.

rick hayes

PS: When trying to start it, use the choke and gently move the gas pedal a bit. Flooring it won't help.

If it only fires when pumping the pedal, then your carb is plugged up and it's running on the raw gas squirted in by the accelerator pump.

Take-7

so, i'm gonna rebuild the carb, where's a decent how-to? what kit should i buy?

rick hayes

Check the FSM sticky at top of the forum.

Download the 79-85 Rx-7 carburetor manual, courtesy of Sgt. Fox. http://foxed.ca/foxed/index.php?page=rx7manual

I used that factory carb manual, Sterling's guide at his website and a Haynes manual. Those first two are FREE. Search this forum, I haven't noticed any detailed photo walkthroughs.

Only kits I'm aware of are Sorenson and Hygrade, should be available at any autoparts store. I used the Hygrade because I could get it same day. The gaskets & pieces are good quality but their instructions are skimpy.

Cheers.

Take-7

ok, i've already got the FSM, where the heck is sterlings website? People always reference him but never actually write down the website in typed out form...
is it sterlingmetalworks.com???

glewsRx

iTrader: (1)

thats the one

Take-7

ok, a little thread revival. i found i'm not really flooding the car. in fact it will only attempt to fire up if i'm pumping the pedal, there is no fuel coming in(aside from the accelerator pump), though i can here the fuel pump running. Is the fuel pump supposed to make an odd noise? i'm only used to the ultra quiet Fuel injected pumps that go "CLICK!.... whiiiiiinne....CLICK!" this one just goes on some kind of steady "roar" ... almost a roar mixed with the longest fart ever. lol

i did take the incoming fuel line off and put it in a bucket, turn the pump on and got a steady stream of fuel. so i believe that system is running. my float viewing window (covered in 3mm of crud) is completely full, i see no room in there, is it supposed to be filled to the top? or should there be some room? like the FSM says... (kinda answered my own question) this is all leading back to that float vent solenoid idea that rick hayes had... hmm..

rick hayes

Did you end up rebuilding the carb? Sure sounds like you need to. You have fuel in the bowls so I'm thinking blocked fuel circuits.

You could have the mother of all vacuum leaks making it too lean. Are the vacuum hoses all intact and accounted for?

You answered your own question, the float level is too high, but don't assume the floats need adjusting.

I've never heard a fuel pump sound like a farting roar, and I've been to two county fairs. The stock pump is quiet. If the pump is aftermarket, then you need a pressure regulator. Knowing it pumps out gas isn't the same as knowing the correct rate or pressure. But you do seem to be getting gas to the carb.

You need to have a new fuel filter (s) before firing up an old car. Possibly crud has blocked what ever fuel passages were clear in the carb, or they might have been hinky to start with.

Hope someone else chips in here.

I'm not a troll. I'm the stuff pond scum eats before it gets eaten by trolls. Cheers.

74RX4

iTrader: (10)

Are you sure the float bowls are full or are they empty? Should be halfway full. If they are full the main jets (bottom of fuel bowls) could be clogged. Rebuilding the carb mainly consists of disassembly and cleaning. I think both kits have a new acc pump diaphragm, check ***** and gaskets. I like to remove all the jets, acc pump nozzle (with check ball and weight) and acc inlet check valve seat (with check ball and weight). I soak the everything overnight in Gunk carburetor and cold parts cleaner. Most parts stores have it in 1 gallon cans. I use small foil type bread pans to soak the large parts. Be careful to not lose the 2 weights and check *****. Blow out all the passages with compressed air before re-assembly.

Here's a few pictures to help with parts id. This carb (84) is a little different than yours, but should still help you see where things go.
http://intertron.com/ron/carb.html


I haven't figured out every wire from the ignition switch. I don't have an 80 so I'm just reading the wiring diagram. Wr is 12V from fusible link and battery. By is the starter trigger. Bw is power for most of the electrical components including the ignition. L is from the ACC position and supplies power to the wiper and heater blower motor. Wr connected to L and Bw should "turn the car on". Touching the By wire to this connection will trigger the starter.