RB or eibach ?
03-26-03, 12:24 PM
#26
I luv sheep&dead hookers
Originally posted by Evil Aviator
The Eibach ERS main springs are linear-rate, and the tender springs come in either linear-rate or progressive-rate. The mains can be used alone, or can be combined with tender springs to give a dual rate (progressive) result.
My car has the Mazda Motorsports Stage I setup. The springs are single Eibach ERS 8" 350# front, and single Eibach ERS 160# rear springs. Also included are Tokico Illumina shocks & struts, camber/caster kit, coil-over hardware kit, 1.125" sway bar, and front strut tower bar, and I added performance bushings. This setup works very well on the track, but may be a bit stiff for those who drive on the street and just want lowering springs for "the look". Like 82transam said, progressives are good for those who prefer comfort and looks over performance.
BTW, unless things have changed at Mazda Comp (which they may have, lol) my 350/160 spring rates are standard fare for the 1Gen, so you may want to check with Tim to verify the data you posted. Optional rates are 175-500# front, and 150-200# rear. Also, I believe that the RB springs are 145/121. Um, I also think that the stock spring rates were more like 120/100, but I'm not so sure on that one.
The Eibach ERS main springs are linear-rate, and the tender springs come in either linear-rate or progressive-rate. The mains can be used alone, or can be combined with tender springs to give a dual rate (progressive) result.
My car has the Mazda Motorsports Stage I setup. The springs are single Eibach ERS 8" 350# front, and single Eibach ERS 160# rear springs. Also included are Tokico Illumina shocks & struts, camber/caster kit, coil-over hardware kit, 1.125" sway bar, and front strut tower bar, and I added performance bushings. This setup works very well on the track, but may be a bit stiff for those who drive on the street and just want lowering springs for "the look". Like 82transam said, progressives are good for those who prefer comfort and looks over performance.
BTW, unless things have changed at Mazda Comp (which they may have, lol) my 350/160 spring rates are standard fare for the 1Gen, so you may want to check with Tim to verify the data you posted. Optional rates are 175-500# front, and 150-200# rear. Also, I believe that the RB springs are 145/121. Um, I also think that the stock spring rates were more like 120/100, but I'm not so sure on that one.
03-26-03, 08:02 PM
#27
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Originally posted by BrewerBob
Is this a track set-up or autox setup? I have a '85 12B that I want to swap the rear end to a GSL (or GSL-SE, I don't know the difference). I want to keep it street legal and use it mostly for autocrossing with the occasional track day or weekend junt.
Is this a track set-up or autox setup? I have a '85 12B that I want to swap the rear end to a GSL (or GSL-SE, I don't know the difference). I want to keep it street legal and use it mostly for autocrossing with the occasional track day or weekend junt.
03-27-03, 10:19 AM
#29
I luv sheep&dead hookers
Originally posted by Evil Aviator
It's the standard Improved Touring setup, but also works for autocross. Improved Touring cars autocross in the "Street Prepared" category. Note that although IT cars race in the SP category, there are slightly different rules between the two, and you can't mix the rules when building your car. Always check the rules before making changes unless you really don't care if you may get bumped into a higher category.
It's the standard Improved Touring setup, but also works for autocross. Improved Touring cars autocross in the "Street Prepared" category. Note that although IT cars race in the SP category, there are slightly different rules between the two, and you can't mix the rules when building your car. Always check the rules before making changes unless you really don't care if you may get bumped into a higher category.
I didn't see the spring rates you quoted. Do you have links to where you got them from?
03-27-03, 11:08 AM
#30
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Originally posted by RotorMotorDriver
And I dont want a prograssive rate spring if its gonna give me an unpredictable ride.
~T.J.
And I dont want a prograssive rate spring if its gonna give me an unpredictable ride.
~T.J.
Keep in mind there are people who call racing slicks unpredictable because they don't squeal before they break loose, but does that mean you want to go racing on all-seasons?
IMO...
03-27-03, 11:26 AM
#31
I luv sheep&dead hookers
Originally posted by Narcisse91
Don't buy into the hype. It may take you a couple more corners to learn them, but once you know how they respond, they're perfectly predictable. If you're not on a dead smooth surface, they can actually handle better, because the car is less likely to get hopping.
Keep in mind there are people who call racing slicks unpredictable because they don't squeal before they break loose, but does that mean you want to go racing on all-seasons?
IMO...
Don't buy into the hype. It may take you a couple more corners to learn them, but once you know how they respond, they're perfectly predictable. If you're not on a dead smooth surface, they can actually handle better, because the car is less likely to get hopping.
Keep in mind there are people who call racing slicks unpredictable because they don't squeal before they break loose, but does that mean you want to go racing on all-seasons?
IMO...
03-27-03, 11:41 AM
#32
I luv sheep&dead hookers
Originally posted by Narcisse91
Don't buy into the hype. It may take you a couple more corners to learn them, but once you know how they respond, they're perfectly predictable. If you're not on a dead smooth surface, they can actually handle better, because the car is less likely to get hopping.
Keep in mind there are people who call racing slicks unpredictable because they don't squeal before they break loose, but does that mean you want to go racing on all-seasons?
IMO...
Don't buy into the hype. It may take you a couple more corners to learn them, but once you know how they respond, they're perfectly predictable. If you're not on a dead smooth surface, they can actually handle better, because the car is less likely to get hopping.
Keep in mind there are people who call racing slicks unpredictable because they don't squeal before they break loose, but does that mean you want to go racing on all-seasons?
IMO...
03-27-03, 01:52 PM
#33
Got Boost?
Not flaming or picking a fight, but which are preferred? I don't care about ride comfort. I'll put some foam padding in the seat if need be.
The ones that match your style of driving and type of driving.
The Long Answer as I understand it....
As far as I can tell, for just a bump in increased performance over stock either the Eibach Pro, or RB depending of taste/style of driving. But since you seem to be more geared for racing, I'd stick with something like Evil Aviator is describing.... ie full coilovers with non-progressive Eibach ERS with the sprig rate of your choice. You can make your cars spring rate progressive with tender springs if you like the way they feel, but It comes down to how you like your car to handle.
Just remember the only thing progressive springs do is change the attitude of the car depending on spring travel. A car with progressive rates could for instance understeer until the springs compress then oversteer or vise versa. The rates on front to back or side to side can change at different rates and different times. This is how a progressive spring seems unpredicable. A well designed system using progressive springs on the other hand could be used to improve weak points in the handling, but is not an easy design task. This is why most racers don't use them, they don't have the time or money to do trial and error on the spring rates as well as progressive rates, rate of progression, moment of progression in designing their cars.
03-27-03, 02:36 PM
#36
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Well i have to say thank you to all the people that put their setups and preferences in this thread. You guys have helped me make my decision on my suspension (i was also trying to make the RB or Eibach non progressive decison) But i ultimately i decided to go with the RB springs and tokico blues (because of the softer than eibach but improved performance over stock). The eibachs i will leave for the race car. 
Thanks again fellas.
Thanks again fellas.
03-27-03, 02:45 PM
#37
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I have the Ground Control Coil-over kit with 300lb. springs in the front of my car.
Installation was easy, I got the weld in version. When I put them on, I only tacked the lower perches in place and then assembled to make sure they were where I wanted them. I found that at the ride height that I want (which is low) I had to mount the perches 1" higher that the installation directions suggested. Now, I could have left them were they were, but, by doing this I was able to put the collar basically centered height vise on the threaded section. It was probably not necessary, but I figured it would give me more adjustability down the road, especially if I decide to raise it up a bit. I live 1 mile up a dirt road, so that is something good to keep in mind! Just an FYI incase you go in that direction.
Installation was easy, I got the weld in version. When I put them on, I only tacked the lower perches in place and then assembled to make sure they were where I wanted them. I found that at the ride height that I want (which is low) I had to mount the perches 1" higher that the installation directions suggested. Now, I could have left them were they were, but, by doing this I was able to put the collar basically centered height vise on the threaded section. It was probably not necessary, but I figured it would give me more adjustability down the road, especially if I decide to raise it up a bit. I live 1 mile up a dirt road, so that is something good to keep in mind! Just an FYI incase you go in that direction.
03-27-03, 08:58 PM
#38
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Originally posted by BrewerBob
I'm not ready for door to door racing yet. I'm sticking to Solo I and II for now and track days (controlled passing, etc.)
I didn't see the spring rates you quoted. Do you have links to where you got them from?
I'm not ready for door to door racing yet. I'm sticking to Solo I and II for now and track days (controlled passing, etc.)
I didn't see the spring rates you quoted. Do you have links to where you got them from?
Links? We don't need no stinkin' links. I got those spring rates from my head. Hehehe, however, since you seem interested, I guess it's worth my time to find the good old Mazda Comp catalog...
OK, as per the 1997 Mazda Comp catalog (this was the last one produced, BTW), the Stage I and Stage II SCCA IT Kits come with two Eibach ERS 8" Front Springs (350 lbs - Part #0000-04-9350-08), and Rear Spring Kit (160 lbs - Part #0000-04-7101-60). It also says that the springs may be replaced with alternate rate springs. As I flip through the catalog to the spring section, I see that the front Eibach ERS springs are offered in rates from 175 lbs to 500 lbs in 25 lb increments. The rear springs are listed on the next page in rates of 150, 160, 175, and 200 lbs. No brand name is listed for the rear springs, which are under the heading of "Rear Competition Spring Kits (1979-85 RX-7)".