RB or eibach ?
10-06-02, 08:51 PM
#1
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kingston Ontario
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RB or eibach ?
who makes the better lowering springs ?
eibach i can order through a store here and racing beat id have to order myself. i belive RB ones are cheaper too
eibach i can order through a store here and racing beat id have to order myself. i belive RB ones are cheaper too
10-06-02, 09:27 PM
#3
get the RB springs. The eibachs i belive are progressive springs. aka the spring rates change as you cornerthey are soft for a comfortable ride until you turnhard. good in theory but the change to the harder spring rate is horrible. and very un predictable!! i will never drive a progressive spring again. if the eibachs aren't progressive then i don't know no what to tell you except don't ever buy progressive spings. here's a list of spring rates fro you remember that a hard front spring and soft rear spring will transfer more weight to the rear wheels under excelleration so its all a balencing issue. if your gonna do nothing but drag soft in the rear and really stiff up front so you can transfer all that weigth to the rear for better traction, but if you try to take a turn talk aboot understear might as well be a honduh
so its a matter of what you're gonna be doing with the car
Stock 100 85
Suspension Techniques 120 80
Racing Beat 145 110
TMC (CS400) 155 125
Eibach 171 100
Dave Turner 225 155
Tim @Mazda Comp 1 225 160
Tim @Mazda Comp 2 250 170
Scott West 285 155
Mazda Comp IT 300 175
so its a matter of what you're gonna be doing with the carStock 100 85
Suspension Techniques 120 80
Racing Beat 145 110
TMC (CS400) 155 125
Eibach 171 100
Dave Turner 225 155
Tim @Mazda Comp 1 225 160
Tim @Mazda Comp 2 250 170
Scott West 285 155
Mazda Comp IT 300 175
Last edited by Hyper4mance2k; 10-06-02 at 09:29 PM.
10-06-02, 10:31 PM
#5
Rotorhead
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 0
Received 39 Likes
on
33 Posts
Originally posted by Hyper4mance2k
The eibachs i belive are progressive springs. aka the spring rates change as you cornerthey are soft for a comfortable ride until you turnhard. good in theory but the change to the harder spring rate is horrible. and very un predictable!!
The eibachs i belive are progressive springs. aka the spring rates change as you cornerthey are soft for a comfortable ride until you turnhard. good in theory but the change to the harder spring rate is horrible. and very un predictable!!
My car has the Mazda Motorsports Stage I setup. The springs are single Eibach ERS 8" 350# front, and single Eibach ERS 160# rear springs. Also included are Tokico Illumina shocks & struts, camber/caster kit, coil-over hardware kit, 1.125" sway bar, and front strut tower bar, and I added performance bushings. This setup works very well on the track, but may be a bit stiff for those who drive on the street and just want lowering springs for "the look". Like 82transam said, progressives are good for those who prefer comfort and looks over performance.
BTW, unless things have changed at Mazda Comp (which they may have, lol) my 350/160 spring rates are standard fare for the 1Gen, so you may want to check with Tim to verify the data you posted. Optional rates are 175-500# front, and 150-200# rear. Also, I believe that the RB springs are 145/121. Um, I also think that the stock spring rates were more like 120/100, but I'm not so sure on that one.
10-07-02, 03:26 PM
#6
yea my figures might be off a little except the rb, sustech, eibach, and stock rates iknow are really accurate... well never mind i just checked rb's site and it say 145fr & 121R wow. but a mag i have tested them @ 145 fr and 110 R... hummm what evva
but still PROGRESSIVE SPRINGS SUCK FOR HANDELING ALL THEY DO IS CREATE AN UNPREDICTABLE RIDE
but still PROGRESSIVE SPRINGS SUCK FOR HANDELING ALL THEY DO IS CREATE AN UNPREDICTABLE RIDE
10-07-02, 06:38 PM
#7
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kingston Ontario
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i want a combination of both i guess
put some traction to the rear
but also for the look and lowering it
and i want to be able to handle corners
so im up for suggestions
at the i will be getting the tokicos tho
probibly nto the adjustables just the regular ones but not for a while
put some traction to the rear
but also for the look and lowering it
and i want to be able to handle corners
so im up for suggestions
at the i will be getting the tokicos tho
probibly nto the adjustables just the regular ones but not for a while
Trending Topics
10-29-02, 10:16 PM
#9
So...Are you guys telling me I should go with RB then? I dont really care about comfort, more or less just the handeling. And I dont want a prograssive rate spring if its gonna give me an unpredictable ride. I want to be able to predict my car when I enter a corner, and i want it to be as close to the same EVERY time. I planned on Tokico Illuminas, Eibachs, and RB sway bars with poly bushings, but I think Im gonna go RB springs now...With the RB springs, I can get the "predictable" driving, right? Like I said, im for performance, not comfort.
~T.J.
~T.J.
10-29-02, 10:36 PM
#10
Originally posted by RotorMotorDriver
I planned on Tokico Illuminas, Eibachs, and RB sway bars with poly bushings
~T.J.
I planned on Tokico Illuminas, Eibachs, and RB sway bars with poly bushings
~T.J.
You get the best of all worlds.
Stiff All Around = Race car stiff.
Stiff Front / Soft Rear = Great for Drag Racing.
Soft All Around = Cadillac ride, Big Pimpin' with the girlies.
The Racing Beat springs are sooo freaking stiff that you will constantly lose the rear around corners, etc. if you start putting down some power.
10-29-02, 11:42 PM
#11
Rotorhead
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 0
Received 39 Likes
on
33 Posts
Originally posted by Directfreak
This is my setup, and it is AWESOME, and predictable. Adjusting the stiffness of all 4 corners in a minutes time really makes it nice.
You get the best of all worlds.
Stiff All Around = Race car stiff.
Stiff Front / Soft Rear = Great for Drag Racing.
Soft All Around = Cadillac ride, Big Pimpin' with the girlies.
The Racing Beat springs are sooo freaking stiff that you will constantly lose the rear around corners, etc. if you start putting down some power.
This is my setup, and it is AWESOME, and predictable. Adjusting the stiffness of all 4 corners in a minutes time really makes it nice.
You get the best of all worlds.
Stiff All Around = Race car stiff.
Stiff Front / Soft Rear = Great for Drag Racing.
Soft All Around = Cadillac ride, Big Pimpin' with the girlies.
The Racing Beat springs are sooo freaking stiff that you will constantly lose the rear around corners, etc. if you start putting down some power.
10-29-02, 11:58 PM
#12
Originally posted by Evil Aviator
In that case you may want to post your spring rates, as I have the same shock/strut/spring setup as you, but my spring rates are just a little bit stiffer than the RB "sooo freakin stiff" springs, LOL.
In that case you may want to post your spring rates, as I have the same shock/strut/spring setup as you, but my spring rates are just a little bit stiffer than the RB "sooo freakin stiff" springs, LOL.
Another Good suspension thread.
Another old thread - with spring rates of different springs.
10-30-02, 01:17 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: indiana
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i have and love the eibachs. go eibach if you want stiffer, go RB if you want a touch of comfort. both will perform admirably. my eibachs were perfect for the smooth florida roads i used to drive. they're a lil rough on indiana snow cracked back roads though. up here, i wish i'd have gotten rb's. were i still in FL, eibachs all the way. just flip a damn quarter to decide!
you'll be happy with either
you'll be happy with either
10-30-02, 02:48 PM
#15
Rotorhead
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Posts: 9,136
Likes: 0
Received 39 Likes
on
33 Posts
Originally posted by Directfreak
Standard Eibach Progressive springs for the FB.
Standard Eibach Progressive springs for the FB.
Originally posted by rotorhead
i have and love the eibachs. go eibach if you want stiffer, go RB if you want a touch of comfort. both will perform admirably. my eibachs were perfect for the smooth florida roads i used to drive. they're a lil rough on indiana snow cracked back roads though. up here, i wish i'd have gotten rb's. were i still in FL, eibachs all the way. just flip a damn quarter to decide!
you'll be happy with either
i have and love the eibachs. go eibach if you want stiffer, go RB if you want a touch of comfort. both will perform admirably. my eibachs were perfect for the smooth florida roads i used to drive. they're a lil rough on indiana snow cracked back roads though. up here, i wish i'd have gotten rb's. were i still in FL, eibachs all the way. just flip a damn quarter to decide!
you'll be happy with either
10-30-02, 03:34 PM
#16
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
I am using the RB spring set (145/121) with Koni stabilizers, 1.125" front and .75" rear (w/adjustable end links), and find the ride to be a big improvement in performance over the stock springs. I made this swap a few weekends ago and have had some time to drive it and enjoy the ride. Shocks are Monroe standards, but I plan to upgrade to Tokico Blues (non adjustable) in a few months.
Overall, the ride is very steady and predictable on straight freeways here in AZ where there aren't many potholes or surface texturing. When cornering, I can feel the tendency for the rear end to swing out, which maybe partly due to spring rate, plus my settings on the rear stabilizer - I used these settings on my SCCA 80LS and the oversteer helped in short, tight courses.
What I have noticed mostly, however, is that the tires squeek around the corners much less than they used to with the standard suspension springs (84SE, which were tighter than other models, unknown rates). Used to be that I could squeek a 4 tires going around a 90 degree street corner at about 25-30mph, and now, at that same speed, I only get a little squeek, usually as the rear end is trying to come around. A little countersteer brings it back in-line and I'm not powering on the throttle through the turn either, steady state with trail braking.
Also added a RB front strut brace, if that matters.
I'm very happy with the RB springs, combined with my Koni bars and stock Monroe shocks - very predictable and I know I'm getting a lot more grip due to keeping the chassis from leaning in the turns. The car stays flat when cornering and is rock solid on the freeway at 65mph. It drives like a completely different car.
IMO, get the springs that are in your price range and that you feel will perform the way you expect. Once they're in, they rarely get changed, so be happy with what you purchase. HTH,
Overall, the ride is very steady and predictable on straight freeways here in AZ where there aren't many potholes or surface texturing. When cornering, I can feel the tendency for the rear end to swing out, which maybe partly due to spring rate, plus my settings on the rear stabilizer - I used these settings on my SCCA 80LS and the oversteer helped in short, tight courses.
What I have noticed mostly, however, is that the tires squeek around the corners much less than they used to with the standard suspension springs (84SE, which were tighter than other models, unknown rates). Used to be that I could squeek a 4 tires going around a 90 degree street corner at about 25-30mph, and now, at that same speed, I only get a little squeek, usually as the rear end is trying to come around. A little countersteer brings it back in-line and I'm not powering on the throttle through the turn either, steady state with trail braking.
Also added a RB front strut brace, if that matters.
I'm very happy with the RB springs, combined with my Koni bars and stock Monroe shocks - very predictable and I know I'm getting a lot more grip due to keeping the chassis from leaning in the turns. The car stays flat when cornering and is rock solid on the freeway at 65mph. It drives like a completely different car.
IMO, get the springs that are in your price range and that you feel will perform the way you expect. Once they're in, they rarely get changed, so be happy with what you purchase. HTH,
10-30-02, 07:13 PM
#17
Oh, since you originally quoted RotorMotorDriver who said he didn't like progressives, I assumed you had liner-rate springs.
). I want 40+ MPH around a flat 90 degree corner rather than the 30 I get with tire sqeal (of course, new tires might help too ). I just want something that I can predict, and something that handles well.~T.J.
10-30-02, 07:18 PM
#18
Ok, just thought Id list everything I plan on getting eventually:
1. RB sway bars (front and rear)
2. Poly bushings in all appropriate places
3. Tokico Illumina adjustable struts
4. Eibach Progressive Rate springs
5. Kosei or ROH 15" rims with Kumho
ECSTA Supra tires (I hear they are good?)
~T.J.
PS - Feel free to suggest anything. I live in western Washington where it rains a lot, so I need somehting that will be EXCELLENT in rain 80% of the year, but for that 20% I want sheer performance with my tires. Maybe I should just get two sets?
1. RB sway bars (front and rear)
2. Poly bushings in all appropriate places
3. Tokico Illumina adjustable struts
4. Eibach Progressive Rate springs
5. Kosei or ROH 15" rims with Kumho
ECSTA Supra tires (I hear they are good?)
~T.J.
PS - Feel free to suggest anything. I live in western Washington where it rains a lot, so I need somehting that will be EXCELLENT in rain 80% of the year, but for that 20% I want sheer performance with my tires
. Maybe I should just get two sets?
Last edited by RotorMotorDriver; 10-30-02 at 07:20 PM.
10-30-02, 09:16 PM
#19
Learn to swim.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Mobile,AL
Posts: 1,301
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My old set up was RB springs, Tokico Blues, suspension energy bushings in the front and no rear sway bar.
The car handled awsome and I never thought it was Too stiff. It was laud and rough on bad roads but awsome on smooth twisty roads.
It was a very nice suspension set up for a daily driver.
Now I'm going with adjustable ride hieght coilovers, Tokico illuminas, Adjustable front sway bar and no rear sway bar.
You should call Mazcomp and tell them what your looking for. Most people don't realise this but anyone can buy performance parts from them. You only have to have an account to buy stock parts from them. the only reason they do this is so they don't compete with dealerships on prices. They have very good prices on parts. Check them out.
http://www.mazdamotorsports.com/weba...?storeId=10001
Mike
The car handled awsome and I never thought it was Too stiff. It was laud and rough on bad roads but awsome on smooth twisty roads.
It was a very nice suspension set up for a daily driver.
Now I'm going with adjustable ride hieght coilovers, Tokico illuminas, Adjustable front sway bar and no rear sway bar.
You should call Mazcomp and tell them what your looking for. Most people don't realise this but anyone can buy performance parts from them. You only have to have an account to buy stock parts from them. the only reason they do this is so they don't compete with dealerships on prices. They have very good prices on parts. Check them out.
http://www.mazdamotorsports.com/weba...?storeId=10001
Mike
10-30-02, 10:34 PM
#20
If you have trouble, call us at 800-435-2508. We no longer sell to the public. Please do not call, if you are not a racer.
Beginning November 1st, 2002, MAZDASPEED MOTORSPORTS DEVELOPMENT will NO LONGER sell to non racers. You will need to be a registered member of our program, with current race results, to purchase ANY parts from us. You will also need to log in to the catalog, with a valid ID and password, to view our catalog.
~T.J.
Last edited by RotorMotorDriver; 10-30-02 at 10:36 PM.
10-30-02, 11:42 PM
#22
Anytime baby!
Originally posted by RotorMotorDriver
Ok, just thought Id list everything I plan on getting eventually:
1. RB sway bars (front and rear)
2. Poly bushings in all appropriate places
3. Tokico Illumina adjustable struts
4. Eibach Progressive Rate springs
5. Kosei or ROH 15" rims with Kumho
ECSTA Supra tires (I hear they are good?)
~T.J.
PS - Feel free to suggest anything. I live in western Washington where it rains a lot, so I need somehting that will be EXCELLENT in rain 80% of the year, but for that 20% I want sheer performance with my tires. Maybe I should just get two sets?
Ok, just thought Id list everything I plan on getting eventually:
1. RB sway bars (front and rear)
2. Poly bushings in all appropriate places
3. Tokico Illumina adjustable struts
4. Eibach Progressive Rate springs
5. Kosei or ROH 15" rims with Kumho
ECSTA Supra tires (I hear they are good?)
~T.J.
PS - Feel free to suggest anything. I live in western Washington where it rains a lot, so I need somehting that will be EXCELLENT in rain 80% of the year, but for that 20% I want sheer performance with my tires
. Maybe I should just get two sets?
Right on.
10-31-02, 02:48 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: indiana
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
eibach pro kit, poly bushings everywhere i could put em, tokico hp(blues), stock sway bars..... specific enough? now, for spirited street driving, in all my time i've been on this board, and from anyone i've EVER talked with, racing beat springs are great. eibach springs are great. pick one. eibach's are stiffer. nobody said stiffer is better. i like them. if i had rb's, i'm sure i'd like them too. i'd suggest eibach's if your local roads are fairly smooth, rb's if they are not.
10-31-02, 03:01 PM
#24
Blast from the past...
Originally posted by SilverRocket
Here are the numbers from the "RX7 Performance Handbook" for what its worth:
Stock: F 100
R 85
ST: F 85/120
R 80
Eibach: F 171
R 100
Racing Beat: F 145
R 110
The authors say the ST springs are shitty on the track or autocross, and really just for people who want a soft ride on the street. They also lower the car more than the others, which is not too good as far as I'm concerned.
They recommend the Racing Beat springs as being the best out of all of them, saying they are the ones who have "really done their homework" regarding their choice of spring rates.
As for running different springs front and rear, sounds like a bad idea from a handling perspective in my opinion. Spring sets are designed to work together to balance the car, seems pretty weird to mix them up. I can understand if your goals are strictly drag racing, but I don't think that's true of most people here.
Here are the numbers from the "RX7 Performance Handbook" for what its worth:
Stock: F 100
R 85
ST: F 85/120
R 80
Eibach: F 171
R 100
Racing Beat: F 145
R 110
The authors say the ST springs are shitty on the track or autocross, and really just for people who want a soft ride on the street. They also lower the car more than the others, which is not too good as far as I'm concerned.
They recommend the Racing Beat springs as being the best out of all of them, saying they are the ones who have "really done their homework" regarding their choice of spring rates.
As for running different springs front and rear, sounds like a bad idea from a handling perspective in my opinion. Spring sets are designed to work together to balance the car, seems pretty weird to mix them up. I can understand if your goals are strictly drag racing, but I don't think that's true of most people here.